Landing Gear

[jim bell]

Finally have my dream airplane, a 1948 in pristine shape. But, I would like some advice on the landing gear. The landing gear was switched a couple owners ago to the 180 gear. The owner didn't like the "excess spring" on the stock 170 gear. But I'm afraid I'm beating the plane up on anything but a hard surface runway. (And even then unless I grease it in.)
I still have the original gear that of course, was designed for the 170, and thinking of switching back. Would sure appreciate some thoughts on the matter.
Thanks, Jim

[Ryan Smith]

Finally have my dream airplane, a 1948 in pristine shape. But, I would like some advice on the landing gear. The landing gear was switched a couple owners ago to the 180 gear. The owner didn't like the "excess spring" on the stock 170 gear. But I'm afraid I'm beating the plane up on anything but a hard surface runway. (And even then unless I grease it in.)
I still have the original gear that of course, was designed for the 170, and thinking of switching back. Would sure appreciate some thoughts on the matter.
Thanks, Jim

You can't taunt us with claims of a pristine 170 without pictures.

I think you'll get some very strong opinions on the matter on both sides from some very respectable folks on here. I've not flown a 170 with 180 gear, and the 170s I've flown have all had the earlier gear. I have no problems with the stock gear, and feel that the 180 may be too stiff since it was designed for an airplane that's much heavier than a 170. The current owner of my family's 170 has a set of 180 gear that came with the airplane, but they've not yet been installed. I am not sure if they will be, and I can only hope that they won't be. I would prefer to keep the extra 20lbs of useful load.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Jim,

All of my 170 time has been flown on the early gear. I wouldn't hesitate to swap out the gear to the original and truly make your plane pristine. Then I'd sell the 180 gear for gas money. But this is me.

I do not think you are hurting your airplane flying the 180 gear.

BTW if you do swap them out be prepared to learn how to land again. The original gear is soft and less forgiving especially compared I'm sure to the 180 gear.

[hilltop170]

Switch out the gear and see which ones you like. I personally prefer the stiffer gear but the original gear works just fine. I don't think you are doing anything to the airframe with the 180 gear installed that would hurt it any more than the original gear would. The 180 gear makes the most difference when you are at gross weight. The original gear will be all splayed out, the 180 gear will still sit nice.

The 170 grosses out at 2200, the early 180s gross out at 2550. 350 pounds is not that much difference if you have the early 180 gear. Later 180 and 185 gear get much stiffer.

[mekstrand]

Jim,

I'll offer my opinion. I purchased my 170A and flew it for about a year with the original landing gear (PN 0541114). The landing gear worked fine, but was a bit spongy and just didn't look right to me (gear legs looked like they were splayed out). I think the engineers may have goofed when they designed the early gear legs. I appreciated the fact that the legs were interchangeable, however the gear was a bit too soft (In my opinion). I replaced the gear legs with Lady Legs (PN 0541118-2 and 0541118-3). The plane looks much better, and it now feels a bit more sure footed on the ground. The difference is really noticeable on rough fields. The change is similar to driving a car with bad shocks (early gear high spring rate) and then having new shocks installed (lady legs with lower spring rate). My other airplanes (Pitts & T-18) are rather stiff legged, so that might bias my opinion slightly towards the stiffer gear.

The 180 gear comes in a couple varieties, I'd first see exactly which are installed on your aircraft (heavy, light, axles fwd, axles aft) and go from there. Some are better suited for 170's than others. Ive flown 170's with 180 gear and also thought it was a bit stiff on small tires. I think the lady legs are perfect on a 170 unless you are on Bushwheels. I don't think you'd have any trouble finding someone who operates off airport that would happily trade their lady legs for your 180 landing gear.

I attempted to attach a couple photos I took during my installation that illustrate the saggy appearance of the early landing gear without success. Feel free to PM me your email address and I'd be happy to send you photos from before and after. With the old gear she looked 60, with the lady legs 28

Hope this helps,

Marshall

[KG]

I went through the same questions after I got my 170B. I have the early "pre lady leg" squishy gear. After reading about them here I was a little concerned about the soft gear but I have never had any trouble with it. My first landings were challenging but that was because of my inexperience in tailwheel airplanes and the fact that I was just getting back into small airplanes after about ten years of minimal exposure to them.

Here's what I've been told:

One friend told my my gear legs were bent. He observed the sagging and thought it had been damaged. It does sit a little bowlegged at times so I can see why he thought that, but he was wrong. It's just the way the soft gear sits.

One very well respected friend said, "Whatever you do, don't put 180 gear on that airplane. It transfers the landing shock loads up through the door frame and cracks the windshield." After seeing so many 170s with cracks in the windshield, I suspect he may be right.

One friend flying along side of me in his homebuilt, open cockpit, biplane (maybe a starduster? something like that) commented on how terribly rough it was after we landed on a grass strip. With my soft gear, I had not noticed the field was rough. My springy gear soaked up the bumps and I never felt anything uncomfortable at all. My buddy in his little stiff legged biplane really complained. Score one for the soft gear.

A casual acquaintance in Alaska said that he knew of a couple of cases where the early gear legs broke during ski operations and recommended the stronger 180 gear for skis and off airport work.

Richard, highly experienced and well respected, likes the 180 gear... and he should know, he's flown them all.

I have been happy with my early soft gear but I don't operate off airport or on skis. It does flex a lot but that should be a good thing as it takes the shock loads and my windshield has not cracked. I also don't know anything else. Everyone says the early gear requires better landings to avoid bouncing... so maybe getting used to it has made me a better pilot.

I came to the conclusion that which gear we have probably doesn't matter to most of us and we get used to what we have. Personally, I wouldn't change my early gear. I might be wrong but, for me, it seems to soak up a lot of bumps on grass fields. It might be bouncier on pavement than stiffer gear.. I wouldn't know as I've never had anything else.... but my soft gear certainly isn't unbearable and I like it.

[Metal Master]

Finally have my dream airplane, a 1948 in pristine shape. But, I would like some advice on the landing gear. The landing gear was switched a couple owners ago to the 180 gear. The owner didn't like the "excess spring" on the stock 170 gear. But I'm afraid I'm beating the plane up on anything but a hard surface runway. (And even then unless I grease it in.)
I still have the original gear that of course, was designed for the 170, and thinking of switching back. Would sure appreciate some thoughts on the matter.
Thanks, Jim

Jim,
The earliest of the 170 straight gear legs had a hole drilled through the leg about half way up the gear for the brake line bracket to bolt to. It is known for cracking and rusting under the bracket at that point. The same shape of later 170 gear legs such as I have on my 170A do not have the holes drilled but instead have small divots spot drilled into the legs where a brake clip attaches. If the brake line clips are still on your old 170 gear legs then I would remove that bracket and check for rust and or cracking at that point as well around the bolt holes at the bottom where the axle attaches. It is likely that the four bolt holes in your gear legs are the same size and that the 180 gear legs have two different size holes so that the axles you have on your 180 gear legs may not work on your old 170 gear legs without modification to one or the other. There is a lot of information here in other posts about the gear legs so will not try to repeat all of it. But I have to wonder why the original person who changed the gear to 180 gear legs did so. I would have the 170 gear legs thoroughly inspected before installing them.
Regards,
Jim

[sfarringer]

Some, maybe all, of the '48's have a hole drilled thru the gear leg about 2/3's of the way up. I would not switch back to this gear. The hole is a place for hidden corrosion to get a start, and is probably a bit of a stress riser, either of which makes gear failure more likely.

[bigrenna]

delete

[hilltop170]

Jim, if your 180 gear has not been approved by some method on your airplane, either with a field approval or by STC, TIC170A now owns the STC.

[bagarre]

Jim, if your 180 gear has not been approved by some method on your airplane, either with a field approval or by STC, TIC170A now owns the STC.

Has that become official? Last I checked, it was still being processed or something and not yet available.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

The early gear 0441138-3 with the hole through is identical to the C-140. They where used up to serial 19218. After that 051114 only had a dimple.

I've got the holes. I'm still not switching mine out.

[blueldr]

I found ground handling to be much more positive with the stiffer gear, and I liked it much better.

I also found ground handling much more to my likeing with double puck brakes, but you must be cautious with them.

[hilltop170]

Unless Bruce has info to the contrary, TIC170A owns the STC now and all the formalities are completed with the exception of a formal vote on pricing which will happen Jan 31, 2015 at the Mid-Year Board of Directors Meeting. STCs are for sale. I guess we should put out a press release Feb 1 when it is officially official.

[Ryan Smith]

Unless Bruce has info to the contrary, TIC170A owns the STC now and all the formalities are completed with the exception of a formal vote on pricing which will happen Jan 31, 2015 at the Mid-Year Board of Directors Meeting. STCs are for sale. I guess we should put out a press release Feb 1 when it is officially official.

Richard,

Are your gear the wheels forward or wheels aft? Given that I didn't realize you had 180 gear on your airplane, I would guess that they were wheels aft. I have tried to identify the set of gear legs that came with my family's 170, and apparently the part number is filled with paint because I can only legibly see the serial numbers.

Is there any difference in handling with wheels forward vs. wheels aft gear legs?