The International Cessna^® 170 Association

I have read the other string about the oil loss from the adapter. I am a new owner, and have the oil filter mounted on the firewall, with an adapter fitting and hoses. I don't really like the setup, because there is just too much hosing. Big inch thick SS hoses that seem to be too long, and are coiled around, probably to take care of vibrations.
There is another filter adapter where the fitting goes into the accessory case, and the filter screws directly to it.
What are the pros and cons of the two types? Which type is the other person having so much trouble with leaking?
If I were to go to the engine mount type, What would be the "E-bay value" of my used firewall mount type?
Dave

Your comments already hit the nail on the head regarding pro's & cons of the two filter set-ups. The remote filter requires hoses: heavy & the potential for leakage or failure.
The F&M filter attaches to the accesory case,replacing the oil screen. I have been having trouble with a small leak at the filter adapter/accesory case connection ever since I installed it 2-1/2 years ago. Not a major leak,but very annoying. For two reasons: one,the engine was freshly majored when I installed the filter--I hated to have a fresh engine with ANY oil leaks. Two,the location of the leak was very hard to diagnose,as the oil blew back onto the firewall and up onto the bottom of the alternator.I thought for a long time that the leak was thru the alternator.
F&M uses a different gasket now for the accesory case connection than the crush ring that came with my kit. I just installed it,hopefully the wx will allow me some test-flighting today.
If you do buy an F&M oil filter adapter,I suggest that you buy it thru El Reno Aviation,in my opinion they are a much more customer-friendly outfit. Just make sure that the kit comes with the newer style gasket,not a crush ring,for the accesory case connection.

Eric

Oil filters,, whats wrong with using the oil filter mentioned in the type certificate item

106. Oil filter -- Fram PB-5

(1) Installed per Cessna dwg 0550150 -- 4 lb.

Models 170, 170A, 170B -- (-12)

*(2) Installed per Fram dwg 62191 or 62574 -- 4 lb.

Models 170, 170A, 170B -- (-3)

I have installed several of these with no problems. no STCs or 337s needed, no leaks, or hoses to fail.

Tom
It sounds great. Where do I get it? What does it look like? How is it attached? How do I get the referenced Cessna drawings? How much will I be spending?
Dave

I have one that I will sell. $450.00 you remove the oil screen and replace it with the filter adaptor, torque the nut and place a drop of torque seal on the seam, screw on a filter and you are done.
Make a log book entry that Accessory 106 was installed and you are legal.

Every 100 hours look at the torque seal to see if it has broken, if not sign off the cessna oil filter AD.

Any pilot is allowed to sign off this AD.

E-Mail me for shipping instructions

ias@whidbey.net

Tom,how much are they new? Are they even still available new? How does the filter adapter connection at the accesory case differ from the F&M? Do they use a spin-on filter,or are they a canister-type arrangement? I had one of the Cessna-issue cannister types on my O-200 & there was no way to change the filter without getting oil EVERYWHERE.

Eric

Call your Cessna dealer for the answers to your first 2 questions, but the OEM filter replaces the scavenge screen in the rear of the accessory case, and attaches just like the oil screen does. The filter element is a regular screw on type.

And when you have a sump drain and this filter you can change the oil with out removing the cowl.

Eric, I like El Reno very much, but I blame them for selling the outdated item you have that is notorious for leaks.
FM-Enterprises units sold direct (or thru others) consist of the latest design and materials (chamfer and gaskets.)

Two ways (at least!) to look at the situation--did El Reno fob off an outdated F&M product on me? Or did F&M fob off a bunch of outdated products on El Reno? Maybe F&M didn't want to go back & modify adapters already packaged for sale,& just figured to let El Reno sell 'em off for them. I find it interesting that I bought my adapter from El Reno in 2001,but the revised F&M installation instruction sheet is dated 10/98.
A similar problem--last weekend I bought a couple CO detectors ("DeadStop" type) from a local pilot shop for use this winter. When I put one in my airplane,it changed color immediately--before I even ran the engine! Looking at the detector,it was marked on the back "use by 2001"! Whose fault is this--the seller,or the supplier? I will go back to the seller,but I'm sure they had no idea the products were outdated. I'm also sure they will make it right.
Might be similar for El Reno. All I know is that El Reno has always been very customer-friendly to me,& F&M was not.
Goerge,you had said you were gonna talk to F&M & ask why they did not want to remachine my adapter with the chamfer as per your earlier conversation(s) with them. Did you? They sure lost what could have been an enthusiastic supporter (me!) by their actions.
The new style gasket SEEMS to have eliminated the oil leak,but I'm gonna give it a little time before I decide that the problem is fixed.

Eric

I've been overwhelmed by work lately and not getting in til late. I'll hopefully contact them tomorow and will report back.
It's been my impression that when this filter adaptor first hit the market that FM marketed it thru El Reno, and in order for them to get an industry discount they purchased a bunch of them and have yet to sell them all off.
Meanwhile those early style (non-chamfered) adaptors had leaking problems and FM redesigned the later production with chamfers and new gaskets and new torque installation instructions (also addressing the carbon in the threads, need to use threadchaser, etc.) and El Reno started including those updated installation instructions in an effort to cut down on the leak complaints.
Those early filter adaptors sold by El Reno were sold under the El Reno name, and therefore FM didn't feel obligated to alter them without charge, but did so (at least for a while. Maybe they decided that shipping, remachining, and new gaskets was just to expensive to continue to do for free on a product they'd sold highly discounted for subsequent sale under a private label.)
I'll find out.

F&M sent the new gasket to one of our customers (has a 172) when they came out. The new gasket and note came in the mail unsolicited! I believe this happened last year sometime. We were impressed that they supported the unit in this way. The customer had ordered the unit directly from F&M.

However, the unit on my 170 leaks at the case connection. I might have the old gasket since I ordered it from El Reno to get the 170 Assn discount. That was definitely over a year ago.....

This post may be somewhat on subject since we are talking about filter adapters. I have been using the Champion 48108 filter on my engine, but I saw a new filter from Kelly Aerospace at AOPA Expo that replaces the 48108 for about $5 less per unit. Nice filter made in the USA. Will be sold by Spruce, although it is not listed in their catalog yet. Has anyone had any experience with these filters?

I haven't any experience with those other filters, but it's important to note that the FM STC specifies the Champion 48108, therefore no other filter is approved under that STC.

I suppose by the letter of the STC you are indeed correct, George. This is another example of STC and FAA language that does not consider common sense/logic. I understand why one should not use a 48109 filter becuase of the increased weight and arm of the filter. The Kelly 48108 oil filter is, however, certified as an acceptable replacement for the Champion 48108. Same physical size with all the anti-flowback and over pressure valving needed for proper operation in any application that calls for a Champion 48108. I have one more Champion 48108 on the shelf and after that one is gone I am going to try the Kelly Aerospace 48108 and save $5. I'll be glad to stop using the Kelly filer if I find it does not meet my needs, or the FAA can provide me with engineering data that says the use of the Kelly filter on my F&M adapter head creates a dangerous situation that did not exist with the more expensive Champion 48108. I don't have the technical material here with me from Kelly, but I am sure the FAA has approved these filters. I'd like to hear an FAA man explain why I can't use an FAA approved oil filter on my engine...other than the STC specifies only the Champion brand. You see George, I'm one of those guys that needs to know WHY you can't use such and such. I can read the words, but I want to know WHY we are limited to the Champion brand. I'll be glad to comply with the STC if I am told WHY anything other than Champion brand is dangerous on the F&M adapter.

Sorry about the vent George, but this lack of common sense thing in aviation really rubs my fur the wrong way. They say we are not supposed to reset CBs on the flight deck at work in order to clear random glitches in the systems. This is work for the MX folks. So am I going to cancel or delay a flight over a minor glitch that I have seen before...no...I pull the CB once to see if the problem clears...if it does I go...if it doesn't I call MX to the aircraft. COMMON SENSE. How bout those poor souls on the Swissair flight that crashed near Halifax. They flew that airplane around for the longest time while it was burning up on them...following the blasted mile long emergency procedures in the stupid book. If they had thrown the book in the cockpit trashbag and flown that MD11 to a suitable airport and landed before the cockpit ceiling melted and fell in on them, most everyone would still be alive. This one is a classic in our training department. COMMON SENSE.

Whew, sorry George...I need one of those cold ones in the fridge. Times like this I really think I need to have a homebuilt aircraft...or a larger fridge

Alright John, I'm with you. Seems if the Kelly filter is approved as a replacement for those applications which a Champion is approved, that would be the approval needed to substitute it.

Of course if we don't have a 5 year study buy FAA/DER types and 3 more pieces of paper that must be carried at all times and a placard that must be in full view of the pilot, it just can't possibly be OK.