Instrument panel upgrade.

[moffet]

If anyone has completely replaced an instrument panel, could you please email me offline and let me know:

1) what you did?
2) how much it cost?

I'm considering possibly buying a 170 and upgrading an older non-IFR panel to a more modern IFR panel. Looking at the Garmin GNS 430 being central in the upgrade.

Thanks much,

Brian

[mit]

I did the Avion research panel 10 years ago and have been very happy with it. They us to have a web sight but I don't have it book marked.

[GAHorn]

Brian,...no need to take the discussion off-line. More folks will benefit by the discussion by participation right here. That's the beauty and purpose of a forum.

[zero.one.victor]

I just googled for Aviob Research,their website is http://www.avion.com.
There is an article in either the SRAM Book or The 170 Book written by Johnny Williams (Williams Aircraft of Texas) in which he describes transplanting a complete 172 instrument panel into his 170. Sounds like a whole lotta work. Might be easier to modify/rebuilt your stock panel. Del Air of california has an STC for centerstack radios.

Eric

[GAHorn]

The hidden monster in this "centerstack" avionics re-model of the panel is the design of the control yoke behind the panel. The original 170/early 172 yokes went thru the panel to a sprocket at each upper/outer end of a "T" contol column behind the panel. That crucifix of a "T" is exactly in the way of centerstacked avionics. Later 172's, etc., changed the "T" to a "Y" with a shorter/lower standard (the "I" portion). Centerstacked avionics are mounted within the gap of the upper "Y".
At first glance it might seem a simple matter to substitute a later "Y" for an early "T"....but looks are deceiving. It's a major job involving a change of aileron cabling geometry, a fitment problem of the Y into the T's space, bicycle chain changes, etc.
It's also attractive to believe that a later 172 panel/control yoke system can simply be grafted into a 170, but that is also a big job because of the previously mentioned problems AND the fact that the later panel was wider than the early ones. (The cabin width was widened in later airplanes.)
With the nervousness of many FSDO inspectors to grant field approvals due to recent changes, this might be more than you bargained for, so make certain to visit with the inspector and gain tacit approval before you start cutting.

[johneeb]

Brian, I am this far along in the conversion to Avion center stack panel. The panel is now back at Avion for powder Coating and screen printing of labels.
The conversion requires all that George listed, however all of the necessary parts are provided by Avion.
The local (Chicago Dupage) FSDO office said they will approve the use of a 337 for this conversion.
The kit costs so far $2475.00 plus the cost of stuff to fill all those xtra new holes.
John

[zero.one.victor]

That article by Johnny Williams did address the "T" versus "Y" yoke & also the width of the panel--like I said, a whole lotta work. Interesting article though,Mr Williams sounds like quite a craftsman. He wrote another article (also in the SRAM or The 170 Book) about grafting the whole firewall-forward off a Hawk XP onto a 170,along with the 172XP wings.

Eric

[170C]

Does anyone have knowleged of a website that would have templates of 170/172 panels so one could use them to layout a new panel?

[johneeb]

Dear Mr. Ole Pokey (or may I call you Ole),

I can make an outline or loan you the panel I have just removed so that you can have an outside outline to use in your template design.

John

[JMACFLY]

After 9-11 I decided to build an IFR panel for my 170A. My layout is unique in that the cluster of six is shock mounted and located in the middle of the panel. The limiting condition being the 7 inch long DG fitting just under the control tee's left arm and behind the idler pulley in control tees full aft,full up elevator position.The engine and vor instruments are mounted to the right. The panel real estate to the left of the pilot's control wheel shaft is empty and wired for tablet computer sized map. The panel is machine tooled and clear powder coated. If members can tell me how to post a picture, I'll give you a peek. There was no change to the control yoke Tee. I wipe nose prints off the windows at fly-ins. I've flown this panel for almost two years now.

[N1478D]

Does anyone have knowleged of a website that would have templates of 170/172 panels so one could use them to layout a new panel?

The program Panel Planner from One Mile Up is one that allows you to print a full-scale paper template on a plotter after you design your panel. A cheaper method is to use cardboard for a mock up.

[moffet]

Well, from what I've been looking at and what I've been reading, it sounds like it would make more sense for me to look for a 170 that has almost what I want rather than purchasing one and replacing the panel. I get the impression that replacing the panel is quite a bit of money, not including the instruments and radios.

I can see replacing an older radio with a new one, pricewise, but replacing the entire panel is probably out.

This match other people's thoughts?

Thanks
Brian

[Walker]

[GAHorn]

Walker, except for modern radios, my panel is original '53. Check out the pic at http://www.c170pics.org (username is: c170 password is: member) posted under my tail no. N146YS.
My compass-correction card-holder was not installed at the time of the photo (the two blank mounting holes in the center) but otherwise it's a correct '53 panel.
The overlays are easily mf'd. by using stretched acrylic (plexiglas) and having a local engraver reverse-engrave the legends on the back surface. Then fill the lettering with the correct color (use modeler paint) and wipe off the excess. Remove the "glossy" finish with 0000 steel wool.

[Walker]