Static System Testing, Altimeter woes

[JJH55]

I just had a static system, transponder certification done yesterday on 78C. After all of the leaks were isolated, there was still a significant leak in the system. I’m pretty bummed that the source of the leak was isolated to the (original) altimeter . Although the altimeter is still accurate in my aircraft, the system could not be certified with this leak. Luckily (I guess), the tech had a new altimeter with him that he offered to sell me to complete the job. At a very reasonable price, I agreed to the sale. A bright, new, white-faced instrument now is sitting in the middle of an otherwise original panel. It looks like a beacon in the middle of an otherwise, original yellowed, dingy, radium faced instrument panel. YUK!

A few years back, I had the altimeter checked and the cal shop told me that due to the radium dial, they could not work on these instruments due to the radiation hazards . Is this true, or does anyone know of a source that will work on them? Can a leaky altimeter of this vintage even be fixed?

On a positive note, I had an excellent experience with the guy who did the work. He came to my hanger with all of the equipment and repair supplies in his car. He spent a total of 4 hours isolating and fixing the leaks, checking the static system, altitude encoder, and of course the altimeter (twice). He finished with adding the appropriate paperwork to keep the Feds happy and was out the door for $100. I thought he was very professional, on time and a nice guy. You can either come to his shop or he will come to you (within reasonable distance). Anyone needing these services in the Dallas/Fort Worth area I would highly recommend. Email or PM me and I will forward the information.
JJH55
3478c

[Harold Holiman]

Check with Rudy Aircraft Instruments in Arkansas. A few years ago they would still overhaul original instruments, I don't know about now. I don't have their address but they advertise in Trade-A-Plane. I have used them on a couple of occassions and was very pleased with their work.

Harold H

[DensityDog]

JJH55, It is common to find the altimeter leaking on these old planes, and you only find out when you get your encoder checked, like you.
If all that is wrong with your old altimeter is the leak, you can probably fix it yourself. If the case is not cracked, most likely it is leaking at the bezel or the glass face seal itself. Try to find a seal or make one yourself. Not legal to the letter of the law, I know, but you could have your proper altimeter back in your panel.
Max

[Curtis Brown]

A couple years back I had Century Instruments in Oklahoma City, OK to overhaul my turn and bank, manifold pressure and techometer. They did good work. All my instruments now have a fresh new look to them.
Curtis

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

If anyone will repair it, it will be these people.

Keystone Instruments
http://www.keystoneinstruments.com
keyinst@cub.kcnet.org
PHONE: 570/748-7083
FAX: 570/748-4439        LOCATION ON FIELD: CTR
HOURS: 8:30 am to 5 pm wkdys

They are located at Lock Haven airport in Pa acrossed from Pipers old plant. They are capable of all sorts of repair including repainting/silk screening your original face of the instrument and make it look like new if that is what you want.
They do work for a lot of other resalers, I have not ever heard of an instrument including gas gages they can't or won't repair, rebuild or restore.

[N1478D]

Jim, I had my altimeter rebuilt at Stahl (sp) over at Northwest Regional. Very happy with their work and their price. The instrument looks brand new, at least it did back when the work was done, but it is the original one that was born in '51.

Had a letter from the FAA in the mailbox waiting on me after such a great day of flying and hangar flying. First thoughts were trying to remember busting airspace, or maybe they did get mad when I buzzed the ADS tower a few weeks ago - they did tell me to turn as soon as I could. Thought about waiting till tomorrow, or later, to open it, but went ahead. It's the new license I had forgotton all about. A while back in an AOPA newsletter they had a link to the FAA if a pilot wanted to replace their old paper license with a new one. It is beautiful. The Wright Glider, Orville, and Wilbur, etc are on it. Don't forget about the 170 flyin next Saturday now that you have that pretty green and polished bird ready to go. We can make it a flight of 3 greenies.

[JJH55]

Thanks to everyone for the contacts. I will start calling them on Monday. Before I send the altimeter out though, I'm going to take it up and cross check it (without connecting to the static system) against the certified altimeter. If it tracks the same as the new one up to 10K, then the new one will, I mean might, come out until the next check.

Joe: AKA "Maverick", Do I detect a little paranoia? Surely not you! I was waiting for your claim of a 250Kt+ violation! Can't make next weekend, prior obligation darn it.... We'll get the three greenies up soon though.

[N1478D]

YOU BET! Why else is the FAA going to contact me? Ask me out to dinner? Go play tennis?

That link from AOPA might have been to change the license ID from SSN to something else for security reasons, that caused me to get the new deluxe license. By the way, the new license has a green tint to it.

[170C]

Joe, when you got your new certificate, did you have to surrender your orginal? Did it show a different effective date (if your orginal date of certificate issuance was -for example- 12-12-92, did the new certificate show 12-12-92 or did it show 12-??-03K?) Finally, did your certificate number change from your ss# to something else?

Sure enjoyed you and Wayne stopping by for lunch yesterday. I have Wayne's jacket--maybe I can drop it off at your hangar one day this week or next Sat.

[N1478D]

Hi Frank,

That WAS a lot of fun yesterday! Back at GPM, the other 3 170's were flying and Rick & Enna's 195. Can't remember when all 4 170's were out and about at the same time. Got to talk with all except for Rick & Enna, they were departing as I was landing.

Still have my original, did not have to surrender it. The issue date on the new license is 12/30/03. That's the only possible negative. My SSN is no longer on the certificate, it has a new number. The info on the website also stated that the SSN would no longer be used at the FAA once the request was made. The price was right - free.

Wayne and Jodie came back over to the hangar later and said no hurry on the jacket. Probably next Saturday when we hook up to test the sometimes iffy weather down towards Houston will work just fine. Of course, any reason to meet at the hangar or house would not be met with any kind of fight at all.

[GAHorn]

Had a letter from the FAA in the mailbox waiting on me after such a great day of flying and hangar flying. First thoughts were trying to remember busting airspace, or maybe they did get mad when I buzzed the ADS tower a few weeks ago - they did tell me to turn as soon as I could.

You need to worry about the reason they instruct you to "turn as soon as (you) could"... Perhaps they think you spend too much time getting around the pattern despite the fact you make "non-747" patterns. I'm surprised they don't charge you air-space rental.

[GAHorn]

It's common for old radium instruments to be unacceptable as cores or repair. The disposal fees and the equipment fees for working of radium instruments are an expense/liability many shops just refuse to accept.
Cessna installed gauges that were on hand when these airplanes were built. Lots of times they had large lots of surplus instruments from the recently concluded World War and if they were radium faced then so be it, but they weren't always radium faced. Also, lots of gauges were overhauled and the radium "harvested" in the early '70's when most shops would still work on them, so just because your gauge looks old and original doesn't mean it didn't get a new face 20 years ago. As such, it can be rebuilt even by shops who don't work on radium.
Lots of times you can see old aircraft gauges sold as curios, etc. on certain online web-sites. There have been cases of other old "vintage" military equipment sold like that also. Many times the stuff was designated to go to a hazardous waste landfill, but got way-laid by an enterprising "surplus" dealer, subsequently listed and sold to the unsuspecting public. In most cases it's illegal to sell it, and ship it through the common mail and carriers, but who would suspect? (Buyer of such militaria and "antiques".... beware. And once you own it, good luck getting rid of it legally or cheaply once you're found with it. Tossing it into the trash can be an expensive violation of local landfill ordinances because it can contaminate ground-water. The media recently reported on a violater in west TX who got caught selling the stuff recently. He'll do jail time and a hefty fine because the stuff was supposed to go underground in radioactive storage near Carlsbad but he "acquired" it and sold it.)

[GAHorn]

New and replacement FAA certificates always have the latest "issue" date printed on them. That later date is what goes on record as cancelling the earlier certificate. It has nothing to do with when you originally earned your license and it makes more sense when you consider that.
What really gripes me is the waste of money the new certificates represent. If you recall, a suggestion that was make several years ago was for the FAA to issue new certificates that would include photo's of the holder and also magnetic strips and/or IBM bar-code strips on the reverse so the certificates could be used for universal airport security badges. But the FAA said that would cost too much and that only paper certificates were affordable as certificate material.
So now we have nice, new, expensive, plastic certificates that do absolutely nothing the cheaper paper certificates could and did do.

[JJH55]

George, Unless I can find that spare Geiger counter in the hangar, is there another way to determine the presence of Radium? Seems strange that if its so dangerous to the environment and ultimately people, that our "friends" in OKC havent issued an AD to remove and replace. As you say, who would know. I cant imagine after paying for new instruments that I would seek out the proper disposal procedures. Kinda adding insult to injury and more $$.
JJH55

[GAHorn]

There actually was a movement to outlaw the radium gauges back in the 70's but the large money lobby in the industry (remember the airlines that we used to have all over the place before the gov't finally developed policies to bankrupt them claiming it would give the public "more choices"?) got their lobbyists to stop it.
The EPA issued regulations on proper disposal, but they don't have enough money to enforce each owner of the offending equipment. (Sort of like the Brady-anti-handgun bill...the law was made and published but no money designated to implement or enforce it.) Little ol' you and me will get the same penalties for improper disposal of a single altimeter as General Dynamics would for dumping tons of it into Lake Worth, the major difference being that GD has the money to defend themselves with big-name lawyers, and the latest tort-reform just passed by this congress fixes the maximum "non-economic" damages you and I can get against them for giving cancer to our kids is $250K.
In other words, what the law says, and what any individual is penalized has more to do with the individual's political influence than anything else.
Look at the indices/needles on your gauge (with a magnifying glass if necessary) and see if they have a heavy, painted-on or "encrusted" material on them. If so, it is probably radium. (If it glows faintly in the dark is another clue. Charging it by shining a light on it to see if it glows shortly thereafter is not a test for radium. That would be only a test for phosphor radiance...not radium which gives off electrons continuously.)
Having the gauges in your airplane is not considered a hazard. Especially for only a few hours per day. Handling the instrument faces as a technician, gauge after gauge after gauge.... - is. (And as the technician's employer you'd have to provide protection for him/her and proper disposal facilities, documentation, and liability insurance.....the reason most shops simply refuse to work on them.)
Disposing of the radium-treated gauge face in anything other than an approved hazardous waste site is also dangerous to the public water supply. (Think stomach, esophogeal, larynx and colon cancer.)
I have a Gieger counter I'll loan you if you pay the freight and return it to me.