The International Cessna 170 Association

Hi folks, the STC has been preserved, I am presently working on bringing this STC back to market. Doug Mueller (7zero2)4nine9-four98nine

Hey, Doug M.

Can you talk through the advantages of this STC? Is is mainly for appearance?

Doug S.

dstates wrote: Can you talk through the advantages of this STC? Is is mainly for appearance?

Doug,

I had several reasons for purchasing the STC...
1) My exhaust tubes were shot, so these are a great replacement.
2) Exhaust is routed below the aircraft, reducing CO in the cockpit.
3) Better looking (IMHO I know Bruce will ding me for originality).
4) More aerodynamic, no proof, but it can't help but be!
5) Better engine performance, I'll let D.M. talk about that.

Win/Win for me.

-Harmon

Not Doug, but another’s opinion (mine) LOL:

Pros:
1-Cleaner profile
2-Leaves less exhaust-soot on cowl and belly.
3-Closes lower-cowling openings, perhaps improving high-to-low-pressure ratio of cowling and streamlining.
4-Changes/Lowers exhaust sound/tone (subjective).

Cons:
1-Departs from OEM (tailpipe area only)
2-Reduced part-suppliers/availability
3-Non-standardized installation variations, adds structure/vibration to mounts & firewall.
4-Adds length to tailpipe, perhaps increasing backpressure (subjective)

Personally, I like the appearance and kinda wish Cessna had developed a system similar to the 206/210.

Cleaner appearance, less potential for CO2 in cabin, easier to put lower cowl on/ off. Not sure that’s enough to offset cost...

IA DPE wrote:Cleaner appearance, less potential for CO2 in cabin, easier to put lower cowl on/ off. Not sure that’s enough to offset cost...

Personally, it's the main reason I got mine and I think it is worth the cost almost for that alone.

If our witless governor ever lets us out, I'll get a picture of new attach point mechanism.. No vibration to the mount!

-Harmon

floatplaneflyer wrote:

IA DPE wrote:Cleaner appearance, less potential for CO2 in cabin, easier to put lower cowl on/ off. Not sure that’s enough to offset cost...

Personally, it's the main reason I got mine and I think it is worth the cost almost for that alone.

If our witless governor ever lets us out, I'll get a picture of new attach point mechanism.. No vibration to the mount!

-Harmon

Didn’t realize you were in Texas. Gov. Witless, during his first presentation to warn everyone about CV-19 and to “stay safe”... first coughed directly into his hand...then used that hand to adjust the microphone on the desk. I don’t know if he knew the cameras were running or not... but it was certainly a moment.

Witless has issued a “Governor’s Order” to stay at home and practice “social distancing”.... but the order specifically permits “boating and fishing”.... I wonder if he realizes he’s closed all the public boat ramps and lakeside parks.

.

gahorn wrote: Didn’t realize you were in Texas. Gov. Witless, during his first presentation to warn everyone about CV-19 and to “stay safe”... first coughed directly into his hand...then used that hand to adjust the microphone on the desk. I don’t know if he knew the cameras were running or not... but it was certainly a moment.

Witless has issued a “Governor’s Order” to stay at home and practice “social distancing”.... but the order specifically permits “boating and fishing”.... I wonder if he realizes he’s closed all the public boat ramps and lakeside parks.

I'm in Michigan, that's my nickname for Governor Whitmer, she did worse than that in her current order, you can go to home depot, but you can't buy paint or anything to do home improvements while you're out of work Also can't work on my plane UGH.

Per Doug M.'s post, I was aware of the power increase as well. win-win-win-win

-Harmon

I have no way to calculate it but there is thrust in the exhaust stream. Pointing down and aft, that thrust has to help.

Doug, did the increase in engine output with your stacks cause any increase in static engine rpm? That might be hard to determine on the dyno, not sure how it was tested.

I’m a skeptic when it comes to claims of increased performance of exhaust systems (the PowerFlow system makes similar claims but don’t show any test data which has passed anyone’s scrutiny other than their own. Example: 7% of what? Static RPM limits this engine to about 118 HP...but the engine manufacturer can easily prove the engine can actually can develop 145 HP... that increase is a huge percent-increase (approx. 18%) in paperwork alone... but it doesn’t make that HP in the actual installation.)

I’m not creating a challenge for Doug here. I’m just pointing out that “data” can be similar to B.S. A “dyno” test is not an “installed” result. Any airframe and/or engine mfr’r will acknowledge that “installation errors” means “dyno test data” is not realized when it comes to certification and is a major reason PowerFlow, Cessna, and FAA don’t confirm actual increased performance.

Folks, I tried to answer Doug States question. I have no intention of self promotion and sorry if it sounded that way. Anyone wishing to know more information can contact me. I will be removing the post since George Horn stated other members complained that I was self promoting via personal message I hate those self promotors as well. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Doug-
As one of the many members that DO appreciate what you have done and DO want any information you have and are willing to share with the interested members, DO NOT let the nay-sayers and negative posts dampen your enthusiasm for this mod.

I can say with almost certain confidence the vast majority of participants here appreciate your efforts, I for one definitely appreciate ANY information creative folks such as yourself might share. I know you have put tremendous effort into saving this valuable STC and you are preserving and protecting a part of what this association is all about. The negative posts do just the opposite. Nobody is going to get rich by preserving and continuing to produce these mods and it doesn’t take much criticism for a producer to say screw it, not worth it, I quit. I just hope these naysayers will take that into account before they continue the negative posts.

Different opinions are fine and should be discussed but without any personal attacks, either direct or implied.

I think I am smart enough to make my own decisions on information that is presented in good faith without any derogatory input from the negative crowd.

It didn’t come across as self promotion, maybe optimistic to me and I think George tried to carefully ease in the debate angle. I have a dislike of the use of percentages without knowing the numbers.
Just a wag, I would think any possible reduction in drag would be beneficial but really we all know if it just looks better, it,s going to fly faster no matter what.

Oh man, this could try a persons patience. Doug is doing the 170 population a favour here, and I personally doubt he will make a cent. If he spent the same amount of time working at McDonalds he would be WAY AHEAD.

If you like the pipes buy some. If you don't don't.

Personally they make it way easier to get the cowling on and off alone (I don't have any friends), and I think they are cleaner. And I seem to remember that they actually were cheaper than the straight downpipes that I needed.

Enjoy the Easter weekend. Eat chocolate for God.