The International Cessna^® 170 Association

A6187-8Z-3
A6191-8Z-3

Cessna IPC Page 60 32-82 and 32-83

I can't seem to find a cross reference for the tinnerman nut for the panel. I'm missing two and I'd like to replace them. Can some of the gurus help??

Thanks!

There are THREE different models of 170s…. when referring to IPC pages/figures….it would be VERY helpful to know to which you are referring. After searching them all … Pg 60 of the ragwing IPC covers these parts. (Please mention WHICH IPC you are discussing when identifying parts)

In the 170-B model IPC these same items are referred to by a superceded part number:

NAS395-1-3 itself superceded to S3228-1 which is again superceded to S4213-1
and
NAS444-4 superceded to S3429-2A .


These “S” numbers are Genuine Cessna Part numbers, available from any Cessna Distributor…for example: Hill Aircraft: https://www.cessnaparts.com/?s=S3429-2A ... pe=product


Or Yingling Aviation: https://www.cessnaparts.com/?s=S3429-2A ... pe=product

BEWARE THAT PN S4213-1 IS PRICED IN BAGS OF 50 OR MORE ….so talk sweetly to the man and he’ll probably find a way to sell you a smaller qty or refer you to a supplier.

Hey Everyone…Mark your IPCs for these items… they are used to hold that little control-yoke “ball” to the panel….and update the superceded PNs in your IPCs.

How to discover superceded PNs..??? Log into a Cessna Distribuor website and enter the PN in your IPC…and the Cessna Website will UPdate any superceded numbers…AND will provide you with parts-availability and current Price. http://www.CessnaParts.com is the Hill Aircraft site and is actually a DIRECT LINK to FACTORY INVENTORY.

Thanks, it is indeed a ragwing.

Great information!

GAHorn wrote:There are THREE different models of 170s…. when referring to IPC pages/figures….it would be VERY helpful to know to which you are referring. After searching them all … Pg 60 of the ragwing IPC covers these parts. (Please mention WHICH IPC you are discussing when identifying parts)
...

George, While I agree it is helpful to include the model 170 one is referring to, give Cory a break. He did include the IPC figure and item number. I can generally find what model guys are referring to by going to the "Search User's Posts" link and looking at their introductory post. In this case Cory wrote, "Hello all, I have a 1948 170 with an o-300."

GAHorn wrote:Hey Everyone…Mark your IPCs for these items… they are used to hold that little control-yoke “ball” to the panel….and update the superceded PNs in your IPCs.

Close, but no cigar. As one can see in fig. 38-4 and 38-5, the ball sockets are attached with AN526 screws and AN365 nuts.Here's a photo of the tinnermans in question:The "U" type Tinnerman is A1348-8Z-1D. It is there to mount the lower instrument panel covers. (There is a typo in the C-170B IPC fig. 38-7 which calls for a 4Z size u-clip instead of the 8Z size listed in the other two IPCs). Edit: This is incorrect. 4Z is the correct size. See additional post below.

Gary, yeah I mis-applied that hardware function… To be completely forthright…my own experience is that the only sockets I’ve ever witnessed were indeed installed with screws and nuts… however one never knows on 70-year-old airplanes whether or not any-method-found is actually original or not if the IPC seems to show something else in a poorly-constructed illustration…and is why I worded that as i did. We’ve all found numerous such instances as I’m sure others have as-well…and furthermore, the IPCs are notorious for errors…) Anyway that hopefully explains my comment in part…

the rest of my post was not to take Cory to task…but as a method of helping others who might visit these forums to be reminded that a comment as to “page” or “figure/item” is insufficient to adequately describe to which IPC one might be referring…. and I was hopeful the comment might prove useful to serve other Members more expeditiously….not just to make my own research easier.

Thanks for the clarification on the Tinnerman sizes.

I think my instrument panel braces are owner-produced. Could someone with a '52 or older 170 let me know where the front of those braces attach?

n2582d wrote:I think my instrument panel braces are owner-produced. Could someone with a '52 or older 170 let me know where the front of those braces attach?

I had to replace, what I believe, you are describing "panel brace" and mine was attached with one of the rivets on the windshield flange. I owner produced mine out of angle.

n2582d wrote:

GAHorn wrote:There are THREE different models of 170s…. when referring to IPC pages/figures….it would be VERY helpful to know to which you are referring. After searching them all … Pg 60 of the ragwing IPC covers these parts. (Please mention WHICH IPC you are discussing when identifying parts)
...

George, While I agree it is helpful to include the model 170 one is referring to, give Cory a break. He did include the IPC figure and item number. I can generally find what model guys are referring to by going to the "Search User's Posts" link and looking at their introductory post. In this case Cory wrote, "Hello all, I have a 1948 170 with an o-300."

GAHorn wrote:Hey Everyone…Mark your IPCs for these items… they are used to hold that little control-yoke “ball” to the panel….and update the superceded PNs in your IPCs.

Close, but no cigar. As one can see in fig. 38-4 and 38-5, the ball sockets are attached with AN526 screws and AN365 nuts.

Screen Shot 2022-02-12 at 11.22.38 AM.png

Here's a photo of the tinnermans in question:

unnamed.jpg

The "U" type Tinnerman is A1348-8Z-1D. It is there to mount the lower instrument panel covers. (There is a typo in the C-170B IPC fig. 38-7 which calls for a 4Z size u-clip instead of the 8Z size listed in the other two IPCs). The two lug tinnerman, A6191-8Z-1D, is the anchor point for the stationary instrument panel brace as shown in fig. 19-50:

Screen Shot 2022-02-12 at 10.50.12 AM.png

That illustration makes it appear as if the brace attaches to the back of the inboard instrument panel shock mount which, I believe, is not the case.

Great information, this is indeed the tinnerman nut I was looking for. I ordered a assortment of sizes, including the -8 and it seems much larger than the others. I believe mine are actually -4. I'll double check when I get to the hangar. I need to order some type b screws as well.

Thanks, cory

Cory,
I think you're right. I assumed (we all know what that's an acronym for) that since the other IPC's showed "8Z" for the size of that A6187 tinnerman that this was a misprint in the B model IPC. It appears that the misprint may actually be in the straight 170 and 170A IPC's. The corresponding tinnerman screws for those "U" nutplates are #4's and not #8's in all the catalogs.

So, now searching for a #4 sheet metal screw u-clip, I've searched the following part numbers: NAS395-1-3, A6187-4Z-3, S3228-1, and S4213-1. I read that the last digit - the "3" - on A6187-4Z-3 indicates that the finish is "zinc metallic olive spray". A "-1" here would apparently indicate a "zinc metal finish". It seems that A6187-4Z "U" clips are more common with the "-1" suffix. Here's a picture of A6187-4Z-1 found on Skycraft's website: A common problem with ordering these is that, as George mentioned, there is a minimum order which makes the price per item ridiculous if you only need a couple. Without doing an exhaustive search the best deal I've found - if you only need a few - is from Univair.

I also have to eat crow in writing that the other tinnerman -- the two lug A6191-8Z-3 / NAS444-4 / A6191-8Z-1D -- was there for the instrument panel brace. I couldn't figure what else it might be there for. But look at what I've highlighted in the following screenshot. That tinnerman is for mounting the stationary instrument sub panel. I apologize for the misinformation. I'll edit my previous post.

n2582d wrote:…
I apologize for the misinformation. I'll edit my previous post.

OH NO! If you get to edit your mistakes… I get to edit MINE!

(and that would take YEARS …and I may not have that much time…)

n2582d wrote:Cory,
I think you're right. I assumed (we all know what that's an acronym for) that since the other IPC's showed "8Z" for the size of that A6187 tinnerman that this was a misprint in the B model IPC. It appears that the misprint may actually be in the straight 170 and 170A IPC's. The corresponding tinnerman screws for those "U" nutplates are #4's and not #8's in all the catalogs.

So, now searching for a #4 sheet metal screw u-clip, I've searched the following part numbers: NAS395-1-3, A6187-4Z-3, S3228-1, and S4213-1. I read that the last digit - the "3" - on A6187-4Z-3 indicates that the finish is "zinc metallic olive spray". A "-1" here would apparently indicate a "zinc metal finish". It seems that A6187-4Z "U" clips are more common with the "-1" suffix. Here's a picture of A6187-4Z-1 found on Skycraft's website:

A6187-4Z-1.jpg

A common problem with ordering these is that, as George mentioned, there is a minimum order which makes the price per item ridiculous if you only need a couple. Without doing an exhaustive search the best deal I've found - if you only need a few - is from Univair.

I also have to eat crow in writing that the other tinnerman -- the two lug A6191-8Z-3 / NAS444-4 / A6191-8Z-1D -- was there for the instrument panel brace. I couldn't figure what else it might be there for. But look at what I've highlighted in the following screenshot. That tinnerman is for mounting the stationary instrument sub panel.

Tinnerman.png

I apologize for the misinformation. I'll edit my previous post.

WOW! that's some serious investigating! This looks to be the part I'm looking for. Thanks for the investigation, I surely appreciate it.

n2582d wrote:if you only need a couple. Without doing an exhaustive search the best deal I've found - if you only need a few - is from Univair.

82D, You win the gold star for the day! I received my univair package yesterday, perfect match!! Well done sir....

Cory,
That’s good to hear. Glad I could help.