Insight on panel

[AWilson]

Here is a picture of my panel. I was hoping some of you can comment on what parts appear to be original. For instance does the red color look correct, possibly original. Are the instruments located in the panel as they were originally? Reason I ask is because I prefer a gradual arc with the instruments. But if this is original or correct then I would probably keep it this way. Anything else you notice I would appreciate your comments. I am thinking the instruments seem to be original except for the engine monitor, which needs to be replaced. Also I see replacement bolts in the yokes instead of rivets. I have learned that much anyway!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

While I'm pretty good at figuring out such things, when asking about your plane the first thing you should mention is the model year and more specifically, the serial number. After searching records to find yours is a '49 A model, serial 18963, I did finally see you did identify it as a '49 in the picture description. The serial is critical however because while yours may say '49 on the FAA paperwork, that document is only identifying the first year the FAA has your aircraft being registered. A good 1/3 of all 170s registration year is not the model year.

Now to your question. You have an extremely original and very complete panel other than the colors. In fact I'd say your panel would be in the top tier of all panels for that model or style of panel, if they could all be judged. Let's talk about the most glaring non original thing, the colors. For all A models there where only 2 exterior colors, Insignia Red and Cessna Metallic Green. Interior colors for either exterior color was Silver French Gray. Interior trim color for the Insignia Red exterior was Dark India and the Cessna Metallic Green was Cessna Blue Green.

Looking at the color behind the center plexi panel in your picture I see Dark India which means your aircraft left the factory with Insignia Red strips and lettering. All the metal panels that are painted red on your panel would have been the color of the surround of our compass. That is Dark India. The bezels were all a flat black if my memory is correct but they certainly where not what color yours currently are. It looks like your base panel and the area around your lower gauges are is Silver French Gray as it should be

You have a vernier mixture and that couldn't have the correct knob and you have one black knob which should be red like your others and your cigar lighter should also have a red knob. That toggle in the middle would have been a false red knob just like the others, it did not to anything.

Your radio installation is in the correct place designed for radios and seem to be very nicely installed considering the space is a tight squeeze for radios made after 1960.

The placement of each of your instruments is in the usual and specified location according to the IPC except the one all the way to the right, I can't quite tell what that is, perhaps a modern CHT/EGT display. It still looks every nice and in place. Your clock is not a model that would have been found leaving the factory

Getting down to the nitty. If a 170 had radios when it left the factory, it only had one mic plug on the left and right as head sets didn't have a mic on them in that time. Of course you have two and an extra third on the right.

Of course no 170 left the factory with a fuzzy instrument panel cover. The aluminum panel would have been painted black.

Is that a manifold pressure gauge to the right of the copilots yoke shaft? Unusual to have a MP gauge if it is, but exactly where I placed mine.

All of this of course is subject to personal taste but if it was my panel my master plan to improve it would only be to repaint the red panels and bezels and try to collect the missing Dark India knobs you need. And that fuzzy stuff would find a new home pretty quick. Mostly however you have a real treasure in your panel as it is in many 170 owners eyes.

Last thing I see in your picture. Is that a long wire (antenna) I see running up and over the center of your windshield? If so that is not something you see every day and we need to see and collect pictures of that from you before there are no examples to photograph

And just one more thing, The IPC is your friend. All the information I just gave you can be found in the IPC. It is worth studying.

[AWilson]

wow I had no idea. I am at work and will respond more this evening. I do believe that if something is in original condition as your telling me then it becomes more important than what I may want. Guess my plans just got more complicated.
thank you much.

[n2582d]

Bruce, as a former C-170A owner, has forgotten more than most of us will ever known about this model. For example, in this conversation about the glareshield color he wrote,

Gary, I retract my "painted black" statement. I'd really on what I said when I was younger and had more brain cells firing.

Regarding the instruments, I agree with Bruce in that your panel is quite original. Overall the instruments do not form a smooth arc across the panel. It would be major surgery to make that happen as I think it would involve cutting up the stationary panel behind the floating panel. From left to right, the airspeed indicator appears to be an original SupAire, the T&B is in the correct position as shown in figure 60 of the C-170A IPC.

Click to Enlarge

The altimeter with the knob in the 6 o'clock position is original and hard to find as is the compass cover/shield. Where your VSI is located the original gyro panel had a Sperry F-3 attitude indicator. Move the VSI and tachometer one space to the right to get back to the original configuration. One original instrument that is required by the TCDS is the stall warning. It was originally in the left subpanel. Could be you have it hidden under the panel. Originally it was a combination light and buzzer, later model Cessnas ditched the light and just have a buzzer under the panel. Although your cigar lighter knob is the incorrect color, it is the right shape. It is very rare to still see that and the correct knob on the primer.

Download your copy of the C-170A IPC here.

In the instrument cover illustrated above there is a rectangular slot at the top center of the cover. This is for an acrylic piece, a "light conductor", that was designed to conduct light from the main instrument panel up to the face of the compass sitting above the panel. I've never seen this piece -- does your panel happen to still have it? It's not illustrated in the C-170A IPC but is p/n 0511021 in fig. 76-43 in the C-170B IPC.

Light Conductor.png (28.43 KiB) Viewed 18922 times

[AWilson]

Another quick note. The aircraft seems to be painted correctly. It is very old paint. It is red like you mentioned. The rest polished. I’ll need to determine if it is original paint. Exterior aluminum is excellent condition. certainly for its age.

Obviously the red velour interior is not correct. Id like to change that to something at least period correct.

I have incredible records all the way back. including the factory bill of sales and factory check offs etc.

[AWilson]

I’ll go there tonight and get pics of the antenna and if the acrylic piece is under the compass. There will be other opportunities but if there’s anything else you want me to check while im there let me know.
It is also quite possible that I can get ahold of the original engine that came from the factory, it is very high time. If so, would that be something to try very hard to aquire considering this aircraft’s condition?

[Richgj3]

Here’s my 1952 panel. Serial number in my signature. First registered 6/10/1952. Trim color is red. It was born blue. The plastic panel behind the engine controls was blue, but was changed to gray when the trim was changed to red. The airplane is polished.

[AWilson]

Here’s my 1952 panel. Serial number in my signature. First registered 6/10/1952. Trim color is red. It was born blue. The plastic panel behind the engine controls was blue, but was changed to gray when the trim was changed to red. The airplane is polished.

Soooo beautiful. That’s what I like, redone to better than new but in the spirit of originality.

[GAHorn]

Judging by the size/gauge of that antenna…I’d guess it not to be “long-wire”… but to be a “radiator” of ether a quarter-wave or half-wave com anntenna.

The long-wire antennas of the late-40s/early 50s went up and over the cabin via a phenolic stanchion then back to the vertical stab. Some ADF installations also use that type long-wire.

[AWilson]

Judging by the size/gauge of that antenna…I’d guess it not to be “long-wire”… but to be a “radiator” of ether a quarter-wave or half-wave com anntenna.

The long-wire antennas of the late-40s/early 50s went up and over the cabin via a phenolic stanchion then back to the vertical stab. Some ADF installations also use that type long-wire.

It’s definitely not that.

[cessnut]

I have a comm antenna in the same location on my '52. It looks similar. My panel is mostly original from what I can tell. It has sat untouched since 1977. I have been working around it while I decide what to do with it. I am tempted to leave it in it's current condition and overhaul what instruments can be repaired. One of these days I will pay dues so I can post pictures. I have a manifold pressure guage in the far right of the panel. I believe it is original.

[GAHorn]

Please consider “paying dues”…if for no other reason than for supporting this websie which we hope provied useful info for you.

It will also give you access to our extensive Mx Library Section.

[AWilson]

The placement of each of your instruments is in the usual and specified location according to the IPC except the one all the way to the right, I can't quite tell what that is, perhaps a modern CHT/EGT display. It still looks every nice and in place. Your clock is not a model that would have been found leaving the factory

Is that a manifold pressure gauge to the right of the copilots yoke shaft? Unusual to have a MP gauge if it is, but exactly where I placed mine.

Yes it is a EGT/CHT but not working well. Will need to be replaced.
The gauge next to the copilot yoke shaft is a suction gauge for the optional gyro stsem. It seems to correct as per the IPC page 108 figure 60-22. SO I guess someone took the ball out to make room for the egt/cht

[IA DPE]

IMHO both panels pictured are beautiful.

I love the 170. The lines and styling of a classic. Speed, utility, and ease of upkeep of a modern aircraft.

We can do most of what they do, but in style.

[GAHorn]

AWilson, … one thing you might wish to do as you restore you yokes/control-wheels…. I pulled the yokes out of our Skyhawk and took them to a local automotive powder-coater who bead-blasted the old flaking plastic off of them…. and powder-coated them gloss-black. They look new. (No need to remove the wheels from the shaft…he protected them from the blasting with HD aluminum foil.

If you want to pay for those $100+ rivets you certainly can…and you’ll probably want to make that change before powder-coating….but stainless machine screws have been used also.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... kkey=16147