Well I took delivery of my Continental IO-360-C today. 210hp, I can't wait. It is off of the rear of a C-337. The engine had 200 SMOH when the starter went out. The pilot elected to take off single engine and crashed into a river. The aircraft was recovered and the engine was disassymbled and cleaned. The crank was sent out and overhauled and it is a VAR. All six cylinders were overhauled. And that is as far as they got. It has been in dry heated storage for 3 years. It is now in boxes in my hanger. And the journey begins. I plan to finish overhauling it and hopefully have it in my 170B by Christmas. Sounds like a good Christmas present to me.
Shawn
Sure sounds like a neat installation project. Should make that 170 into a true 4 place bird (climb ability). I forget what I have read about loss of useful load, but I am sure you've looked into it. Are you going to do something to increase your fuel capacity? What engine mount are you planning to use? I understand that can be quite a challenge if you have to modify some existing mount. Have you checked to see if the fed's are going to work with or against you on this conversion? I think I would like a '55 170 w/ this engine & cs prop, but to me the cost pushes me into a C-180 price range.
I strongly suggest you get the STC and engine mount to avoid the hassel you'll likely get from the fuzz and the expenses of a DER to satisfy them.
Ask the man who owns one!
Yes I am deffinetely buying the STC from XP mods. For now I am going to stay with my stock fuel tanks until I heal up from the cost of this conversion. Later on I will probably get Delair's STC for bigger tanks. Near as I can tell my endurance will be about an hour less but my range will be about the same if you calulate conservatively. If you use XP's published #'s (which I think are overly optimistic) I will have a much better range. I am putting the constant speed on so that helps. Also my calculations are done with my plane on big tires and a bore prop. I only cruise at about 97 mph right now.
As far as useful load, when I talked to XP mods this spring they expected to have there gross weight increase approved any day, but you know how that goes. They did say that even if I bought the STC before the GW increase was approved that it would be retroactive once it was approved. It gives you a 150 lb increase. I was leaning towards a C-180 also until I had a early model 180 in the hanger last winter for an annual and started compairing planes. Cabin deminsions are identical, it weighs about 250 lbs more than my 170B. After you add the weight of my new engine and add the gross weight increase in you end up with a 170 that is 200 lbs lighter than a stock C-180 and has exactly the same useful load. If you have ever been stuck on a beach or in mud 200lbs is hugh. There is no dought that I will easily have as much into mine as if I had bought a C-180 but it should be a good performer.
I shipped my cylinders out to Lycon yesterday for a port and flow balance. I have flown two other planes with their port and flow balance done and what a hugh difference. Both had fixed pitch bore props and both had to repitch their props afterwards in order to keep from over reving on climb out. It is supposed to conservatilely add 10%.
Well I better go to work so that I can pay for all of this.
Shawn
Somebody just posted a Javelin tank for sale in the trademart forum. I believe they're 18 gallons? Now that I say that, it sounds awful big. Maybe less? Goes in the baggage/rear seat area.
What LR tank set-up does DelAir offer? Oversized/stock location, tip, or baggage bay? I know a guy who has Flint tip tanks, he seems happy with them but I don't know if I'd want the extra weight way out on the wing like that. The Javelin or O&N seems like maybe a better set-up. Except for cutting a hole in the side of the fuselage for the filler.
Did you say which model of the IO-360 you have? I have flown quite a bit in a friends' '77 C-172 Hawk HP that has a IO-360-K engine which is a derated (lower rpm) version @ 195 hp. It is a smooth running engine and gets off & climbs good + I seem to remember it cruising in the 120/130 kt range. Yours should preform quite a bit better with 210 hp and a lighter airframe. As you may know we have at least one member with a IO-360 Cont'l. & he seems well pleased with it. I have heard of some folks putting C-175 wings on to get the larger fuel tanks, but I would think Flint wing tip tanks, for those times you really needed the extra fuel, would be better, although expensive. I believe you get a gross weight increase with the Flint's due to a greater wing span. I have seen two C-170's with the Franklin 225 hp conversions, one in Anchorage & one in Wilmington, NC. One of these told me it would out preform a stock C-180 We will look forward to periodic updates & maybe photos.
The Javlin tank is 19 gallons, 18 gallons usable. It fits in the baggage area and raises the floor of the baggage area about six inches. Very simple operation. You burn down your right tank, then switch to left tank and pump fuel from Javlin into your right tank. Then turn pump off and use whichever wing tank, or both, that you want.
Delair's fuel tank STC modifies your existing wing tanks. There are two options. Add 7 gal per side or add 15 gal per side. You send your tanks to him to modify and you modify the wings yourself. Down side is they are a bit pricey. As I recall $4,500 for both tanks at 7gal per side and $4,800 for both tanks at 15 gal per side. I never have really liked the Javalin tank set up but it is way more economical. From what I here the Flint tip tanks can make handleing a little funny with all of that weight out on the end. As I recall on the 170s the tip tanks go inside of the existing wing instead of extending the wings, and I don't think it comes with a GW increase on the 170. I like the idea of no fuel in the cockpit and no transfer pumps with the Delair one.
I have the IO-360-C 210 hp. I have talked to blueldr and got some good in put from him. I have also heard that it would outperform a stock C-180. I'll keep you guys posted.
Shawn
I wish I could recall whose 170B we saw during the Tehachapi convention over at the other airport where the helicopter demonstration occured. It was a polished/red B model, with an IO-360 and the original spinner because it had a fixed pitch prop on it. I visited with the owner, and he's a member, but I've had a brain pharrt.
It was the prettiest installation I've ever seen and frankly, until I looked into the cowl openings I didn't realize it had been converted! Nice job! (Had the baggage door mod also, which I admit is convenience-plus, but I'm a bit leery of cutting a hole like that in a taildragger.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
The baggage doors are nice. I installed one in a clients 170B last winter. It was a little nerve racking the first time sawing a hole in the side of someone elses plane. I used Delair's STC for it and I hate to say it but the directions were next to useless. There was a lot of head scratching going on. It did turn out really nice though. I have a baggage door waiting to go in mine but the engine comes first. I have extended baggage so that door will be a big help.
So what is everybodys opinion on the best place to get Continental engine parts? I have been going through the list of manditory replacement parts , sure seems like a lot larger list than Lycoming. It has been about 8-9 years since I last overhauled a Lycoming though and this is my first Continental overhaul. It seems strange, some of the manditory replacement parts have overhaul procedures in the overhaul manual. Like the hydraulic tappets and case thru bolts for example. Maybe there is a Continental guru out there that can shed some light on this.
Shawn
The tip tanks on 170's may not be extensions or change the GW. I heard it does on 180's & 185's, but that is just "word of mouth". Dave Mason had this done to his 185 so he could tell someone for sure or go straight to the source (mfg).
George is right on that red C-170B we saw while at the Tehachapi convention. I somehow failed to get any photos of the plane or the tail number because I was going to vote it for peoples choice, but I never did see it over at the Tehachapi airport. It was one of the most pristine 170's I have seen and as George said the fact it had the big engine wasn't apparent until you looked under the bonnet. The engine compartment, as well as the interior was spotless. Maybe that owner will put a post on the forum and show us some photos. I have been told, here we go again on this "word of mouth" thing, that some of the baggage door additions include strengthing the baggage compartment floor since it loses some support with the opening being there. I wouldn't hesitate a minute to have one done to mine if it weren't for the $$. Although I only have one seat in the back (3 place plane) and it makes putting things in the baggage area much easier, a door would sure be nice. Ron Masicott put one in his plane, maybe he can comment on what was done other than cutting the hole and riveting in the door frame, etc.?
Shawn,
You probably already have Atlee-Dodge jump seats or have seen them installed. They make easy access to the baggage area without adding the baggage door. The forgoing may not be true with the extended baggage area in your 170.
Last December I finished doing the XP Mods IO360 installation. While I don't have all the answers I will try to answer any questions you have. Of course Tom Anderson is very accessable and does have the answers.
Johneb
John, Thanks for the offer. I am sure I will be bending your ear on occasion with this project. What a beautiful, clean installation on your plane! That gets me even more excited to get mine on. What exhaust are you running on that? So how do XP's cruise and fuel burn #'s compare to what you are actualy getting?
I don't have Atlee seats but I do have a sling seat, although it is rarely installed. My hat shelf is still in and so to crawl back under the hat shelf into the extended baggage is just a pain. Somewhere a ways down the wish list I'll probably swap out the sling seat for Atlee seats.
The baggage door that I installed didn't incude any floor stiffiners just the door frame.
Shawn
The aircraft was recovered and the engine was disassymbled and cleaned. The crank was sent out and overhauled and it is a VAR. All six cylinders were overhauled. And that is as far as they got. It has been in dry heated storage for 3 years. It is now in boxes in my hanger. And the journey begins. I plan to finish overhauling it and hopefully have it in my 170B by Christmas. Sounds like a good Christmas present to me.
We will look forward to periodic updates & maybe photos.
Like the hydraulic tappets and case thru bolts for example. Maybe there is a Continental guru out there that can shed some light on this.
that some of the baggage door additions include strengthing the baggage compartment floor since it loses some support with the opening being there. I wouldn't hesitate a minute to have one done to mine if it weren't for the $$. Although I only have one seat in the back (3 place plane) and it makes putting things in the baggage area much easier, a door would sure be nice. Ron Masicott put one in his plane, maybe he can comment on what was done other than cutting the hole and riveting in the door frame, etc.?
