OK, I've been reading these post for sometime now I'm ready to participate. Besides ya'll need something new to amuze you!
My wife and I are fixing to fly from Palmer, Alaska to Russellville, Arkansas, where we will live. After I go into Merrill Field (2000 Convention) and get a transponder, that is. If the weather is good we will leave on October 24th. I've already given Mr. Bickford a chuckle so I thought I'd introduce myself to the rest you before I get to those fly-ins you're always talkin about.
Let me see if this starts a new topic!
Dave
Flying from Alaska to America
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
Never flown outside!
Please feel free to reply as if I don't know anything about flying, because I'm finding out I don't. Beside I'm a youngster anyway!
I learned to fly right here on the Knik River Bed and I am a registered hunting guide, so most of my flying has been uncivilized.
I guess the conditions are good here, cause I've never adjusted my take off distance for hot weather or anything. I just fly over at 60 and count one mississippi, two miss, six, and that tells me the strip is 600ft. Have never worried about altitude strips, Palmer is 232, Kantisha (base of McKinley) is about 1500ft, and it has never seem to be much of a difference. My Nav aids are the "Book of Alaskan Topo maps" and I land on rocks the size of your tires. Saw them cuties when you came to the convention. Don't blame you for covering them up with those fenders! Going below 8.50's is just out of the question, so don't even go there.
So with those flying skills I'm ready to fly across the Continent. Got to go by my in-laws in Franktown, Colo. on the way.
Dave
I learned to fly right here on the Knik River Bed and I am a registered hunting guide, so most of my flying has been uncivilized.
I guess the conditions are good here, cause I've never adjusted my take off distance for hot weather or anything. I just fly over at 60 and count one mississippi, two miss, six, and that tells me the strip is 600ft. Have never worried about altitude strips, Palmer is 232, Kantisha (base of McKinley) is about 1500ft, and it has never seem to be much of a difference. My Nav aids are the "Book of Alaskan Topo maps" and I land on rocks the size of your tires. Saw them cuties when you came to the convention. Don't blame you for covering them up with those fenders! Going below 8.50's is just out of the question, so don't even go there.
So with those flying skills I'm ready to fly across the Continent. Got to go by my in-laws in Franktown, Colo. on the way.
Dave
Last edited by David Laseter on Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
Flight Plan
I have read Marty's "Flying to Alaska" Backwards.
We will fly out of here by the Alaskan Hwy down to Grand Prarie, Red Deer, & Lethbridge, Canada.
Crossing the Border: I was going to check in at Havre City, Montana (AOE), and then over to Glasgow, then straight South on the east side of Hays MOA. But now I'll have to go to Great Falls and down the West side of Hays MOA. Which puts me on WAC CF16 that I don't have up here until Wed. I'm hoping the Mountains aren't too tall. Customs informed me that Havre City, was closed for customs as well as others - post 911. When I called Great Falls to see if I could fly in without a Mode C, they informed me I'd better not cross US borders without Mode C.
So now I'm going Lethbridge, Cut Banks (AOE) or Great Falls (AOE) and would like to pop out to Lewistown, , Billings (never been in class c), Sheridan, Converse, Gering, Gebauer, & Kelly (on Den South airspace).
How's this last leg?
Dave
We will fly out of here by the Alaskan Hwy down to Grand Prarie, Red Deer, & Lethbridge, Canada.
Crossing the Border: I was going to check in at Havre City, Montana (AOE), and then over to Glasgow, then straight South on the east side of Hays MOA. But now I'll have to go to Great Falls and down the West side of Hays MOA. Which puts me on WAC CF16 that I don't have up here until Wed. I'm hoping the Mountains aren't too tall. Customs informed me that Havre City, was closed for customs as well as others - post 911. When I called Great Falls to see if I could fly in without a Mode C, they informed me I'd better not cross US borders without Mode C.
So now I'm going Lethbridge, Cut Banks (AOE) or Great Falls (AOE) and would like to pop out to Lewistown, , Billings (never been in class c), Sheridan, Converse, Gering, Gebauer, & Kelly (on Den South airspace).
How's this last leg?
Dave
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
Cross Country Flying
According to my C170 Owners Guide, fuel effiecency is best at
Elevation 7500 / RPM's 2200, don't have book in front of me.
It reads that my plane can improve to 5 GPH.
I've always flown 2350 rpm's, but since reading your posts, I'm going to lean towards 2400.
What's best for this long trip? A friend was concerned about running lower rpm's. What's a good range? Maybe 2300 - 2450?
I lean the engine. Pull mixture out till it sputters, then push back a little past smooth.
Any other tips on cross country flying?
I always leave the fuel on BOTH. Is there any reason to use left and right?
I figured 36 hrs flying time. Don't know how many straight hrs my wife and I can sit in a plane.
David Laseter
N4387B
Elevation 7500 / RPM's 2200, don't have book in front of me.
It reads that my plane can improve to 5 GPH.
I've always flown 2350 rpm's, but since reading your posts, I'm going to lean towards 2400.
What's best for this long trip? A friend was concerned about running lower rpm's. What's a good range? Maybe 2300 - 2450?
I lean the engine. Pull mixture out till it sputters, then push back a little past smooth.
Any other tips on cross country flying?
I always leave the fuel on BOTH. Is there any reason to use left and right?
I figured 36 hrs flying time. Don't know how many straight hrs my wife and I can sit in a plane.
David Laseter
N4387B
Recommended cruising RPM is 2450 per the Owner's Manual, Section II, G, Item 1, "Cruising" check list.
The recommended method for leaning is found in Section I, "Mixture Control",where it is stated:
"At any cruising altitude, adjust the mixture control for best rich power by pulling the mixture control out until maximum engine r.p.m. is obtained with fixed throttle; then, push the mixture control in toward "full rich" until r.p.m. begins to drop. Readjust mixture for each change in power, altitude, or carburetor heat."
The"best" rpm for cruising determines what your goals are. Do you wish to achieve the longest time aloft (loitering time?) Or do you wish to acheive the greatest distance for the fuel used (miles per gallon?) Or do you wish to reach your destination in the shortest period of time? (Which in itself, may actually require a lesser power setting if one wishes to avoid a marginal fuel stop!)
The "best" rpm for miles per gallon according to the charts is 2300 at 12,500 feet. (18.7 mpg). The greatest endurance is found at 2100 rpm at 10,000 feet (7.7 hours @4.8 gph
). But the "best" rpm/altitude for getting there in the best time with the best fuel efficiency is once again, 2300 rpm at 12,500 feet. The trouble with these charts is that no mention is made of the time to climb to those altitudes. My personal recommendation is to cruise at the altitude at which you are capable of achieving 2450 rpm with wide open throttle while properly leaned. This should give you near maximum TAS (about 115 mph) while burning about 7 gph, 16.5 mpg, with an endurance of more than 4.5 hours (again, if properly leaned.) If you have the standard 7653 prop that will likely be around 7.5-8.5K feet, depending upon OAT.
The recommended method for leaning is found in Section I, "Mixture Control",where it is stated:
"At any cruising altitude, adjust the mixture control for best rich power by pulling the mixture control out until maximum engine r.p.m. is obtained with fixed throttle; then, push the mixture control in toward "full rich" until r.p.m. begins to drop. Readjust mixture for each change in power, altitude, or carburetor heat."
The"best" rpm for cruising determines what your goals are. Do you wish to achieve the longest time aloft (loitering time?) Or do you wish to acheive the greatest distance for the fuel used (miles per gallon?) Or do you wish to reach your destination in the shortest period of time? (Which in itself, may actually require a lesser power setting if one wishes to avoid a marginal fuel stop!)
The "best" rpm for miles per gallon according to the charts is 2300 at 12,500 feet. (18.7 mpg). The greatest endurance is found at 2100 rpm at 10,000 feet (7.7 hours @4.8 gph
). But the "best" rpm/altitude for getting there in the best time with the best fuel efficiency is once again, 2300 rpm at 12,500 feet. The trouble with these charts is that no mention is made of the time to climb to those altitudes. My personal recommendation is to cruise at the altitude at which you are capable of achieving 2450 rpm with wide open throttle while properly leaned. This should give you near maximum TAS (about 115 mph) while burning about 7 gph, 16.5 mpg, with an endurance of more than 4.5 hours (again, if properly leaned.) If you have the standard 7653 prop that will likely be around 7.5-8.5K feet, depending upon OAT.
Back in the late 70s' I used to travel to the states in the fall. Either 78 or 79 left Fairbanks on the 23 of Dec and stayed between storms to Calgary, ( following the hiway to Grand Prarie then direct Calgary via Rocky Mountain House ) . Customs at Whitehorse and again at Kalispel Montana. Did get cought by wx between Calgary and Lethbridge, Was vectored around some snow showers by approach and turned loose in the heaviest snow I'd ever been in, landed in a hayfield to set out whiteout conditions, Visited the folks there, a couple planes in the barn. Cought up with the storm at Fort McLeod, landed on a bulldozer track and was picked up by a fellow out for a drive with his son, visited with his family till we could make it to Lethbridge and called it a day. Next day was cavu, hopped over to Kalispel for customs and had Xmas dinner with relatives in Libby. Life was a lot simpler then.
Alaska to the lower 48
Dave.... Here is a couple of my notes from my diary 7/20/90
Flying in a PA12. Left Whitecourt for Spring Bank, Alberta 229 miles.
Spring Bank to Cut Bank 193 miles 5,300 hard surface at Cut Bank.
Friendly customs at Cut bank, free doughnuts and coffee.
Cut Bank to Glasgow 266 miles. Followed highway 2 and the railroad track.
Dropped down low and followed the Milk river into Glasgow.
Stayed at the Cotton Wood Inn.
Glassgow to Williston N.D 160 miles.
What I remember the most was the low and slow over some pretty country. No passes or elevation problems.
It can get windy out on the flats this time of the year.
Right now I have winds 24 kts gusts to 37 kts. (Western WI.)
Bob
Flying in a PA12. Left Whitecourt for Spring Bank, Alberta 229 miles.
Spring Bank to Cut Bank 193 miles 5,300 hard surface at Cut Bank.
Friendly customs at Cut bank, free doughnuts and coffee.
Cut Bank to Glasgow 266 miles. Followed highway 2 and the railroad track.
Dropped down low and followed the Milk river into Glasgow.
Stayed at the Cotton Wood Inn.
Glassgow to Williston N.D 160 miles.
What I remember the most was the low and slow over some pretty country. No passes or elevation problems.
It can get windy out on the flats this time of the year.
Right now I have winds 24 kts gusts to 37 kts. (Western WI.)
Bob
US & Alaska
My experience with that route says to fly the highway. The airports are typically located about 250 to 300 miles apart and stop at each one for fuel and updated weather. One or two places the 170's range can let you skip an airport but it is not wise. The trench should be avoided as the weather can be unpredicatable even in the summer and some of the tribal airports in the trench are not friendly to outsiders. Plan on flying as long as you can in good weather because the fronts come quickly and tend to linger.
The Canadian Flight Service people are excellent and give much better weather data then that found in the US. The streach east of Watson Lake to St Johns is about the worst terrian along the route and the weather can be good at both ends and be bad enroute with no weather reporting between.
As far a elevation goes the highest part of the trip is in Montana. Even in the summer the winds blow 20 to 30 mph in the border region between Canada and Montana and you will definately notice the effect of density altitude. Some of the Candian airports along the route can have serious cross winds (Whitehorse), I would be proficent in landing under those conditions.
Even in the summer the Montana clouds have ICE in them - avoid the dark colored misty thin layers as they tend to contain some serious ice potential.
The Canadian Flight Service people are excellent and give much better weather data then that found in the US. The streach east of Watson Lake to St Johns is about the worst terrian along the route and the weather can be good at both ends and be bad enroute with no weather reporting between.
As far a elevation goes the highest part of the trip is in Montana. Even in the summer the winds blow 20 to 30 mph in the border region between Canada and Montana and you will definately notice the effect of density altitude. Some of the Candian airports along the route can have serious cross winds (Whitehorse), I would be proficent in landing under those conditions.
Even in the summer the Montana clouds have ICE in them - avoid the dark colored misty thin layers as they tend to contain some serious ice potential.
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David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
Excellent Feedback!!!!!!!!I just called US Customs this morning and they told me that Cut Bank would be fine. So that's were I'll check in.
gahorn - my perspective might be changing real soon. I thought my 170B was stock when I bought it cause it looks like all the others around here. But I found out in 2000 that the Big Tires, DM8043 Prop, & droop tips, for starters are not. I'm set up to climb, not cruise. Unfortunately more like 100mph at best. It does get up fast and looks way Cool, except it has 3 different paint colors and 2 different primer colors and the wings have been recently resheeted and aren't painted at all. My heart is set on "People Choice 2003".
I will increase my normal cruising speed to 2450, that'll be great. I first got interested in trying to get further distance because we were wanting to fly the trench. But later realized that we needed to fly a lot farther East anyway. N1277D made good points concerning the trench, especially this time of year. I really need to get out of here quickly, I heard Eureka got 3 ft of snow last week. I'm going to borrow some oxygen tanks from work so we can fly at 12,500 (kidding).
I'll be conscious of adjusting the mixture all the time by using the RPM's. I'll be asking more questions about how to benefit from using my EGT, CHT, and MP, also.
Rosebery - I didn't realize Rocky Mountain House was an airstrip with fuel. Thought it was just the VOR. My route plan flew within 15 miles, so I'm landing there now. Do you remember where the Hay field is? I'd like to see those planes.
flyer170 - I'm changing to Whitecourt and I'll check on the Doughnuts at Cutbank. They said to give them 2-3 hrs notice. The inspector has to drive over from Sweetgrass. I sure hope I've got everything, never been inspected. Is 24 kt wind normal or a windy day? About normal here in Palmer, Ak. That's why one of my wing tips is green primered.
N1277D - good point about not passing up fuel that far north, it's tempting. And I told my wife that we needed to make a run for it when the flying's good, she agreed. We were wanting to catch a few B&B's though. I'll just have to learn about this Density Altitude as I go. The book always says my plane needs about 1500 extra feet than it does. I know gahorn, it's my plane that's deviated, not the book. I'll be watching for rime ice.
This website is awesome!
Thanks so much,
Dave
Rocky Mounntain House Alberta has changed indeed in the last 25 years. It is now a 5500' X 100' ashphalt runway ((13-31) Runway slopes up from thlds. Elevation 3244' CYRM in the chart supplement. They are a full serve airport with 100LL and jet fuel. If you're gona make a few stops into Canada, you should get yourself a chart supplement, lots of info inn there.
Good luck, JD
Good luck, JD
Alaska is part of America!-
David Laseter
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:24 am
I've got the Big Green Canada Supplement and referencing it constantly.
Also, Have Vol 1 & 2 Flight Guides for America. Those are really great also. Never seen one till now. Just happen to open the Guide to Heber Springs, ARK. and there was my wife's cousin's restaurant listed - McPhersons.
Tim - Havn't found Alaska in America's Flight Guide yet
Man, it sure is winter now - 22 OAT here and snowing.
Dave
Also, Have Vol 1 & 2 Flight Guides for America. Those are really great also. Never seen one till now. Just happen to open the Guide to Heber Springs, ARK. and there was my wife's cousin's restaurant listed - McPhersons.
Tim - Havn't found Alaska in America's Flight Guide yet
Man, it sure is winter now - 22 OAT here and snowing.
Dave