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Empty Weight Wrong???
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:32 am
by HUGHES
I was looking through my weight and balance report today. It's dated July 02, 1993 and says that my empty weight is 1469.9 lbs. Does this seem right? The POH says that the empty weight should be 1220 lbs.
The plane is a 1954 170 B S/N 20474 with a Cont. 300 - 145 hp. It's currently on wheels with very limited equipment with no damage history.
I think what might have happen is that they added the floats (245 lbs) to my equipment list and then added it again on the W/B Amendment form. My float empty weight is 1613.9.
Any thoughts??
Jason Hughes for Mr. Jari Sarkka
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:20 am
by voorheesh
That sounds high for a 170. What is the source/history of your report? Has the plane ever been weighed? Is there continuity in your w&b/equipment list back to some point where it was modified from original condition? When I got my 170A, the empty weight report consisted of a logbook entry from when the plane was changed from floats to wheels and there was no equipment list. It was almost original except for a com and xpdr. I spent about $250.00 and had an A&P weigh it and compute a CG. I dont have the report in front of me but it was about 1300lbs. I am currently putting an equipment list together per advice from others in this site (see "equipment lists"). The TCDS requires us to have w&b data and equip list on board. Good luck.
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:41 pm
by Bruce Fenstermacher
Jason
It is possible your plane weighs that much but if I were you I'd be checking it out just like you are.
Without further information it's hard to say what to do but a fresh weighing of the aircraft can never hurt. Unless of course you want it to weigh less than it really does.
What I'd do is review all the W&B history from day one and try to reconstruct it and the equipment to present day. You may find an obvious mistake which you can then correct. This detective work can be fun and you will probably learn a lot about the aircraft along the way.
If you can't reasonably reconstruct the W&B and it's equipment list from an actual weighing then you really aren't sure of the W&B of the aircraft and to be honest it's not airworthy till it's weighed and a new W&B and equipment list created.
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:42 pm
by bsdunek
As stated above, the best way is to weigh the aircraft to get an actual W&B.
Some years ago I went through the papers attached to the POH on my 170 and found several errors over the years as equipment had been added and removed. There was not such a great difference, but I felt better about it.
If you're going to load up near gross, an accurate W&B is important!
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:22 pm
by GAHorn
I'd be interested in any B owners data that shows their actual weights-at-the-wheels, and the resulting Arm/Moments, for comparison purposes.
Anyone have that data on their plane?
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:59 pm
by HUGHES
I would be interested in some comparisons...
Thanks for the advice.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:00 am
by doug8082a
gahorn wrote:I'd be interested in any B owners data that shows their actual weights-at-the-wheels, and the resulting Arm/Moments, for comparison purposes.
Anyone have that data on their plane?
I had it on '82A.
Bruce, Give Buck a jingle and see if you can get it from him. I didn't save a copy.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:16 am
by Bruce Fenstermacher
Jingle Jingle Buck.
I have that info for my airplane but not here at work. I'll get it tomorrow.
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:22 pm
by Paul-WI
Code: Select all
Weight EWCG Moment
Left Gear Leg 794.0# 23.25" 18460.50
Right Gear Leg 771.0# 23.25" 17925.75
Tail Wheel 122.0# 228.25" 27846.50
Less Fuel (220.0#) 48.20" (10700.00)
Less Skis (81.0#) 19.25" (1559.25)
A/C Empty 1384.0# 37.55" 51973.50
These are the numbers for N3458D after I had a new W&B Done last fall during my annual.
Paul
EDIT: Cleaned it up a bit after seeing Bruce's post (I learned something today)
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:02 am
by Bruce Fenstermacher
Here are my aircraft numbers as it left the factory as an A model in 1950.
Code: Select all
Position Scale Tare Net Wght
Left Wheel 551 1 550
Right Wheel 562 1 561
Tail Wheel 104.5 14 90.5
Total 1201.5
Here it is from a weighing I did in 2003 after she was fattened up a bit.
Weight Arm Moment
Left Wheel 624.5 22.44 14013.78
Right Wheel 592.8 22.44 13302.43
Tail 100.6 228.68 23005.21
Total Weight CG Total Monent
1317.9 38.18 50321.42
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:58 pm
by Robert Eilers
Left wheel: 725
Right wheel: 748
Tail: 125
Total: 1598
The airplane was weighed with full fuel. Fuel and oil weights were backed out for empty weight of 1376.
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:13 pm
by Bruce Fenstermacher
I should have noted my second set of number included unusable fuel besides paint and avionics.
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:21 pm
by N2255D
N9149A wrote:I should have noted my second set of number included unusable fuel besides paint and avionics.
Bruce,
I might have believed you removed the avionics and even took the unusable fuel out, but you would have been hard pressed to make me beleive you removed the paint to weigh your plane.
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:07 am
by Bruce Fenstermacher
I'm very thorough.
I was comparing the second numbers with the first which is from the factory and everyone knows no 170s came with paint.
It didn't have any radios either though it did have the antenna from the factory.
I was just speaking in general of the differences being the paint, fuel and current avionics being the big difference in the 116.4 lbs it gained. 5 gal of unusable fuel is 30 lbs alone.
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:33 pm
by 4stripes
My empty weight is 1324 lbs. This does include oil and unusable fuel. It is a 1952 with some radios, transponder, nav/com, loran, wheel pants.
Cheers Eric