The International Cessna^® 170 Association

So, it looks like I'm going ahead with my 1st 170 purchase It has an old Narco Mk12A radio that needs to go! My question is, since it has "needles" that are apparently working, should I just replace the 12A with a 12D or would it make more sense to replace eveything with King equipment? I have already decided that I'm not going to put a Garmin in there so I think it's between those systems.

What are others running? Thanks!

YOU MUST REMEMBER TO USE CAUTION WHEN INSTALLING kING EQUIPMENT. THE DOOR LOCKS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND OR REPAIR WHEN THEY BREAK OPEN YOUR AIRPLANE TO STEAL THE RADIOS.

I'm surprised Narco has a 12D for 12A replacement. The 12A is a heavy radio and has a separate heavy power supply.

Removing the old wiring and weight and going with a new installation whether Narco or King is probably the way to go.

Narco was once the king of small aircraft radios but today they are only a shadow of what they once where. Doesn't make their stuff bad just that there are not a lot of Narco installations left these days to know how well they work.

George (gahorn) is a fan of their stuff and their service. I live 20 minutes drive from the Narco factory and to be honest installing their radios wouldn't enter my mind because no one else seems to install them. I must admit I might be missing a good company with a good product.

I'm with Bruce, I wouldn't consider installing NARCO anything, the service just isn't there anymore. of course that's just my opinion but it's based on riding around behind lots of different radios.

also, you won't save yourself anything by installing a slide-in and keeping the old indicators etc - go with a new installation of whatever brand strikes your fancy but get rid of that old crap. those indicators will be nothing but problems and you can't get parts so in the near future you're stuck putting new ones in anyway. and now you have new radios with old wiring...

do it right, do it once.

Hawkeyenfo-
If you decide on King and need a radio, I just removed a KX170B w/ GS converter and KI209 head out of my 170 for a Garmin installation. I purchased it new in 1978 and it has never been out of the plane until now, still working good. I will send it to Bevan-Rabell in Wichita for a yellow tag before I let it go.

N9149A wrote:
Narco was once the king of small aircraft radios ...

No pun intended, I'm sure...


In general, I've had fairly good luck with avionics, my Narco AT150 TSO being the only unit I've ever had to remove for service (twice since original new install in 1991). When this transponder goes tango uniform again, I'll probably replace it with one of the Garmin units.

I've had other well-used radios die, but I attributed those to very old age and didn't have them serviced. Among them a Genave Alpha 300, a Narco MK12A, and a Narco 140 ADF.

Miles

I had two MK12D's and a GX55 GPS in my plane and liked them very much. I believe the GX65 is the same as the GX55 except it is a combination GPS/com. I would think a MK12D and a GX65 would be an excellent setup and it won't put you in the poor house to buy them.

Harold

Although I have already expressed my opinion regarding ICOM transceivers (got the new one yesteday), I have had several Narco units. The old MK-12A was a strong radio and was worth every penney spent on it, but alas, it became a boat anchor & I got rid of lots of weight. Had a MK-12D in a C-182 & couldn't complain about it either. Only Narco in my plane now is the Xponder.

One of my MK12's was a MK12D and the other was a MK12D+. Both are lightweight flip flop radios and the MK12D+ has the additional features of the vor readings in the radio if you don't want a separate vor indicator. Handy if you are short on 3 inch holes in your panel. I never had any trouble from either one. The GX55 also performed perfectly.

Harold

N9149A wrote:...George (gahorn) is a fan of their stuff and their service. I live 20 minutes drive from the Narco factory and to be honest installing their radios wouldn't enter my mind because no one else seems to install them. I must admit I might be missing a good company with a good product.

The deal with Narco is... they began to suffer from avionics shops in the "field" not keeping their manuals up-to-date, so field repairs became a problem. So Narco decided to create a limited number of shops authorized to make repairs on their units. Avionics shops felt "slighted" over that, especially those shops who had a sizeable inventory of parts which Narco would not buy back from them. It caused some hard feelings and so many local shops don't speak well of Narco radios, since if they install them they won't be allowed to repair them. (They must send the units back to the factory for repairs.)
From Narco's vantage point, by limiting repair stations to a few (and the factory, of course) they can better control the quality of repairs. Of course, any installation problems are relegated to the installer.... and those folks are reluctant to promote Narco's because they can't get a repair-shop authorization out of the factory. It's a "he said, she said" situation.
My experience is that sending a Narco radio back to the factory for repairs is faster than letting most local shops work on it anyway (typically two days), and the quality control is excellent. And frankly, Narco radios have been very dependable in my experience. (I've had them in my 170 and my 206 and they were very good, with fewer problems than I've had with other brands. Of course, Narco units are basic, stone-simple designs and not the sophistacated units that the other manufacturers offer.)
In any case, removing it and Fed Ex-ing it to the Narco factory for repair is usually quicker than arranging an appointment with local facilities and getting a different brand repaired while they diagnose, order, and then wait anyway for parts to be delivered, and then spend time for the actual repair and re-installation, in my experience.
Of course, this is no help at all if the problem is actually in the installation/wiring... which is not uncommon.

Fer what its worth....Why go with any of that "Heavy" stuff unless you need IFR capability. If you can live with VFR, consider Garmin SL40. Light weight and reliable. Or I-Com 200. Give me a handheld GPS, a SL40 with all its features and a X-ponder with mode C, and I'm good to go almost anywhere. Of course, that doesn't leave many pretty colored lights and dazzling displays to entertain your spouse/children .
chuck

Like George said the down hill slide for Narco was probably in the long run a better deal for their customers as far as repairs go. At the same time they did this new aircraft orders were nonexistent and their stuff was not being installed in the few that were made. All and all a big down turn for all involved from the manufacturer to the installers.

Fact is today most shops except for maybe the biggest farm out their repairs. Most can't afford the manuals, the expertise and the equipment with continual calibration required to do actual component repairs.

And think about it. What other electronic device do you have around your house that you would repair when it stops working. I can't think of one. from my TV to garage door opener. When it quits working it's more economical to replace the whole thing with new than repair.

I've never heard of a bad Narco radio in fact I use their AT150 transponder and would have no problem replacing it with another. I for one am just a bit tired of everything avionics wise having the name Garmin on it. Perhaps we should be taking a new look at the Narco products.

My UPS GX55 always worked perfectly, was IFR certifiable, and only cost a little over $2000 new. Garmin bought UPS out primarily to keep reasonably priced GPS units off the market, IMHO.

Harold

Hey Richard,

I sent you an email, I am interested in that particular combination and if the current owner and I can work the deal out, I definitely want to hear more about them!

Chris