Crosswind taxiing

Rudy Mantel · Post by **Rudy Mantel** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 9:47 pm

The windy weather will soon be with us.
Although I have the standard Cleveland brakes in my 170B I have the devil's own time taxiing in a strong crosswind. The brakes are in good condition.
In any kind of wind, before takeoff, I hate to face into the wind for run-up because once the tail wheel goes into full-swivel mode it's very difficult to turn back 90 degrees toward the runway. I'm seriosly considering double-puck brakes, which FAA needs field approval.
Does anyone else have this problem ?
Rudy

flyer170 · Post by **flyer170** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 1:59 am

Rudy....My 170A is not the easiest to taxi in a strong cross wind either and it really gets exciting when I have it on skis

.
If the gear is not properly aligned and the tail wheel and swivel is not functioning the way it should it would be even more difficult.
I have some more work to do in that area. Camber on one side is not correct yet and I'm still not happy with my tail wheel assembly.
Have you checked that out

I have single puck Clevelands and 800 tires.
My hunch is, even if they are perfect it would still be a challenge in a strong cross wind for a 170. Of course we haven't defined "strong cross wind"

Bob

lowNslow · Post by **lowNslow** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 6:14 pm

I experienced this same problem, the only "cure" I have found is to ride the brakes and carry extra taxi power to supply the rudder with a little more authority. Maybe we should come up with a tail wheel lock STC ala DC-3

Rudy Mantel · Post by **Rudy Mantel** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 8:58 pm

A tail wheel lock would certainly be useful. My wheel alignment and tail wheel are both fine.
800x6 tires make the brakes less effective because of the longer-moment arm from the brake puck to the ground. I changed mine for 600x6's and brake effectiveness improved.
But the brakes are still inadequate when taxiing in a brisk crosswind or when facing into a wind over say 15k once the tail wheel goes into full swivel mode. Then it's very hard to turn back to crosswind. Often there's not enough space to taxi ahead to get the tail wheel back into the steering mode and then make a gentle turn crosswind towards the runway.
Consequently I often have to do the run-up not facing the wind.
(Landings and takeoffs are not a problem).
Rudy

Rudy Mantel · Post by **Rudy Mantel** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:07 pm

For a while I was flying Helio Couriers. This airplane had a non-steerable tailwheel, a large vertical tail and a long tail cone. But it had very powerful brakes. I once watched a Helio factory pilot taxiing a long distance crosswind and the downwind wheel and tire caught fire !
I think possibly the later model Helios had lockable tailwheels.
Rudy

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:08 pm

The next time you are in Grand Prairie you are welcome to taxi mine Rudy to see if there is a difference.. More wind does make it more difficult, but it sounds like yours is much more difficult than it should be.

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:12 pm

N1478D wrote:The next time you are in Grand Prairie you are welcome to taxi mine Rudy to see if there is a difference.. More wind does make it more difficult, but it sounds like yours is much more difficult than it should be.

Yeah, Rudy! But hopefully you'll definitely notice a difference! (Be careful taxying Joe's through any fuel spills! The sparks it leaves behind draggin' that tail-skid mod around can require the emergency equipment!)

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:29 pm

gahorn wrote:
N1478D wrote:The next time you are in Grand Prairie you are welcome to taxi mine Rudy to see if there is a difference.. More wind does make it more difficult, but it sounds like yours is much more difficult than it should be.
Yeah, Rudy! But hopefully you'll definitely notice a difference! (Be careful taxying Joe's through any fuel spills! The sparks it leaves behind draggin' that tail-skid mod around can require the emergency equipment!)

Oh yeah, and don't forget to not takeoff! Not having a rudder can ruin your afternoon.

Just having the broken tailspring that's left back there might be a nice mod for a sprinkler system digging contraption. When I taxied off of Dave's runway, there was an interesting trench everywhere I had been.

Sure that getting rid of the tailwheel assembly, hardware, etc. will add 20 - 30 more knots airspeed.

flyguy · Post by **flyguy** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:15 pm

WHATA HEK SA GOIN ON NOW? DID I MISS SUMPIN? WHATSIS ABOUT MISSIN TAIL STUFF? HOWCUM I DIDNT GIT TU GIT IN THIS MEALYMOUTHIN JOE DISCUSSION? I FEEL REEL HURT

ONE THING ABOUT IT IFN YOUR SPRING IS ALL THATS LEF WHEN YOU LAND YU DOANT HAVE MUCH TROUBLE STAYIN STRATE.

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:27 pm

flyguy wrote:WHATA HEK SA GOIN ON NOW? DID I MISS SUMPIN? WHATSIS ABOUT MISSIN TAIL STUFF? HOWCUM I DIDNT GIT TU GIT IN THIS MEALYMOUTHIN JOE DISCUSSION? I FEEL REEL HURT

ONE THING ABOUT IT IFN YOUR SPRING IS ALL THATS LEF WHEN YOU LAND YU DOANT HAVE MUCH TROUBLE STAYIN STRATE.

I've been hurt and affended that you haven't been affending me over this, where have you been?

jmarken · Post by **jmarken** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:33 am

Mine does pretty good taxing in a crosswind, but any taildragger will not want to track straight in a crosswind taxi. Holding a brake is certainly a bad idee because the brakes can overheat and stick, and it just wastes gas. I do have double-puck Clevelands, BTW, and turning away from the wind is still a chore.

The answer is simple - just taxi faster. This simple and obvious technique was given to me by a former 170 owner that flies an interesting taildragger that most of us have never noticed is a taildragger...the U-2.

Anyway, taxi fast enough so that your tailwheel sterring is effective enough to hold it on the centerline, and keep that wheel all the way back!!!! Yeah, I have an A model and it gets heavy on a long taxi, but it keeps that tailwheel pinned down for better traction. Too many tailwheel pilots are sloppy with the elevator these days. You see it flopping around back there. No wonder people think these things are quiirrely. Sorry for the soap box!

Rudy Mantel · Post by **Rudy Mantel** » Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:20 am

Joe: Thanks for the offer- if I'm ever near Grand Praire I'll come see you and maybe even taxi your airplane. It sounds like you had a tail spring break and rudder damage- Sorry to hear this- hope you're getting it repaired-

Jeff: the problem isn't so much just taxiing in a crosswind. As long as the tail wheel stays in the steering mode it's OK. The problem is once it breaks into the full-swivel mode to face into the wind for run-up it's very difficult to make that 90 degree turn to enter the runway; those taxiways in Florida are pretty narrow- With stronger brakes I could swing it around a lot better-
Rudy

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Mon Nov 18, 2002 2:51 am

Thanks Rudy,

Yes, working on the repairs. Not sure if the rudder is interchangeable from the 3 different 170 models or not, and the bird dog. Have a lot of work to do, but it will be good as new when it is all completed. It looked like a fatique break on the spring.

Looking foreward to you making it to North Texas, if you like catfish, we have a really good place with a nice grass strip.

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 9:04 pm

Joe, good luck on the repairs- a bummer !
I had a spring break after stupidly letting a mechanic bend it after heating it. The heat destroyed the spring's temper and the spring broke, very luckily just after I pulled up in front of my hangar after refueling. Amazingly, the only damage was to the spring ! Jane and I just got out of the airplane and it was sitting unattended when we heard a loud BANG !

I'm very fond of catfish ! One of these days you just might see me -
Rudy

The International Cessna 170 Association

Crosswind taxiing

Crosswind taxiing

TRENCHER???

Re: TRENCHER???