The International Cessna^® 170 Association

(In a thread re-located from the TradeMart, the following discussion transpired. Although the parts have sold and the seller (Dick Lemmon aka BluElder) has sold all his baggage door parts, I thought the subsequent discussion might be worth salvaging for posterity. The first response to Dick's Ad was by Miles Bowen):

ey Dick,

Can a baggage door be hauled in a 170 without a baggage door? Do you have any pictures you could post or email?

It may be many years down the road before I put one in (next paint job), but it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and get one. It would be more fun flying up to get it than sitting around waiting on a truck to arrive...

Also, is there any risk involved in buying an STC now and "saving" it for a few years down the road?

MIles

Our member Johnny Williams in San Angelo also used to do this mod, but I don't know if it was under an STC or field approval.

I've dreamt of doing this but talk myself out of it when I recall all the times I ended up finishing loading by going over the back seat anyways. (Can't really fill up the baggage area except by piling things on top, which can't be accomplished thru the bag-door.)
(Probably just sour grapes on my part. I'd been a lot happier if the previous owner had just gone ahead and done it.)

I know Cessna designed it on later aircraft, but I have a nagging feeling about doing it to a 170 from the standpoint of fuselage strength. I've been informed that Cessna does not approve of the mod , tho' I've not heard a definitive reason for their reluctance.

I have read that Cessna does not approve of ANY modifications to their aircraft, STC or not. Considers any mods as rendering the A/C unairwothy. Trying to remember the exact context and situation.
Don't mind getting older just miss my mind.

Cessna put them in the 180 which usually has more abuse than our 170(depending on who is landing it)> I put one in and yes you can load it up all the way to the hat rack it just take a little shoving. I put two hat channels down the bottom of the fuselage as they did on the 180( they used bead angle), and adding it was one of the best mods I have done. Funny story, when I first started I drill all the rivets out of the long single fuselage skin and told the AI "lets don't do this and re rivet the skin" Nick, said let me see the cutters and I handed them to him in a normal response and he put a bit cut in that skin and said" I heard about this baggage door for years and it's going in" On another note I have the skins for the exact cut that will cleco directly to your plane and you can draw the cutout without worry of being wrong. Bob Coats has them now and like Miles is reluctant to do something until??? I have said use it and loan it to anyone wanting to install a door just keep track of it. Actuall he is waiting on E Booth to do the work (chicken) Contact Bob if interested in using them if you don't get enough of the fuselage to do you own. I bought the door from White industries and they sent me a 4X3 foot section of fuselage. The way Blueldr's add reads he has all of that.

Ron

Although cutting into a perfectly good fuselage is a big deal, that's not why I'm reluctant to go ahead and do it. By my eyeball engineering, it looks like the door frame will more than make up for the strength lost by the gap in the side skin. It's just that my paint is still in relatively good shape, and I don't want to fly around with a mismatched baggage door for years waiting for the paint to get bad enough to repaint the whole airplane.

Maybe if I use the template Ron is talking about I can make the cut accurately enough to use the existing side skin for the door?

Miles

cessna170bdriver wrote:Although cutting into a perfectly good fuselage is a big deal, that's not why I'm reluctant to go ahead and do it. By my eyeball engineering, it looks like the door frame will more than make up for the strength lost by the gap in the side skin. It's just that my paint is still in relatively good shape, and I don't want to fly around with a mismatched baggage door for years waiting for the paint to get bad enough to repaint the whole airplane.

Miles

You could avoid the paint mis-match probably by put a fairing on the leading edge of the opening a-la the C-206 when it flys with the cargo-door removed.
If you polished your airplane you wouldn't suffer such problems.

(We've gotta stop hi-jacking BluElder's msg.)

Miles, the skin cuts into 3 different skins and the door is one piece. Hopeful wishing you'll have to paint! It actually cuts underneath the floor skin and the frame makes up to the floor and you use the door frame as a doubler on the side skins. Cutting that hole/skin is hard to do!

The installation isn't easy, but it's not that hard either. It is no problem to get a computer match on any paint color today.

I do not remember there being any limiting date on Dellickers STC, but he would be the one to provide a difinative answer to that question.

I'm sure the baggage door package will fit inside the airplane for transportation.

As to loading the airplane, I always used to load my cooler carrying the beer and other semi essentials in the rear of the baggage compartment due to its weight, size, and being the last thing to get ready. It meant that I had to load it first and then the other stuff in front of it. That always made a lot of work real early for an early departure. With the baggage door, I can load everything except the cooler the day before, That way I just throw in the cooler, kick the tires, and shag ass!

I permanently removed the hat shelf years ago because it was always in the way and was too flimsy to load anything on.

I never operated with a rear seat installed. Almost all of my friends were afraid to fly with me and I sure as hell couldn't find three at one time!

I'm disposing of all of my C-170 stuff 'cause the FUZZ is breaking my sorry old ass at age 86 (coming up) when class three medical time comes around. I'm diabetic and it's a real pain in the ass to deal with them, so I guess that I'll try going Light Sport before I possibly get turned down after my next birthday.

If you like to go airplane camping, the baggage door was,by far, the best mod I ever made. Bless old Harry D.

blueldr wrote:It is no problem to get a computer match on any paint color today.

Even metalics?

Miles

Mile

To answer your question regarding buying the STC then waiting to install it later

There is nothing wrong with this. STCs do not have to be applied immediately. They do not have a use by date. You are buying the right to use the STC most likely for a specific aircraft when or if you ever get around to it.

I've considered buying several STCs for my plane because they are available now and who knows how long that will be. One of those was the engine/prop STC Ron gave the association. Now that it is owned by the association it is less likely to become unavailable like so many STCs owned by individuals have.

blueldr wrote:...As to loading the airplane, I always used to load my cooler carrying the beer and other semi essentials in the rear of the baggage compartment due to its weight, size, and being the last thing to get ready. It meant that I had to load it first and then the other stuff in front of it. That always made a lot of work real early for an early departure. With the baggage door, I can load everything except the cooler the day before, That way I just throw in the cooler, kick the tires, and shag...

I permanently removed the hat shelf years ago because it was always in the way and was too flimsy to load anything on.

I....

So... now you throw the cooler in on top of all the other already-loaded stuff?

Ditto on the hat shelf. Useless junk.

I have several friends who fly without medicals. They avoid big airports likely to have ramp checks.

Harry still sells the STC for $200. I just stopped in and seen him last week and picked up the STC while I was there.
Shawn

George,
Practically no one has a lasting love for a smart ass, no matter how cuddly he is!

I leave the space for the cooler empty for last minute loading through the baggage door.

Most of the ramp checks I've seen have been at small airports where the majority of the old geezers do their flying.

I'm not seeking cuddling from another old geezer.

The only two ramp checks I've ever experienced were at large airports. One at AUS and one at EFD (Houston Ellington). I'm not recommending operating without a medical. The real reason is not enforcement action... the real reason: Too many liabilities to others and oneself.

Miles-
That off-color door just adds points to your "Rat Catagory" score.