The International Cessna^® 170 Association

I'm still using the standard incondecent or regular landing and taxi lights but they sure don't last very long.

With out getting horn-schwoggled..... what's my best replacement with out spending and arm and leg, and where is the best place to get them.

Thanks
Willie

I've started using the Galaxy 4509Q lamps from Aircraft Spruce, $20 plus shipping. The URL is http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... tbulbs.php. They last quite a bit longer than the standard GE 4509 lamps. They still burn out, but they last long enough that I don't feel nearly as much pain when I replace them.

I turn on my landing lights for daylight takeoffs and landings, so they do get some use.

Ditto for what John says. I just bought 2 for extra hanger supply at OSH a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks Guys

My S.O.P. is when I make my 5 mile out call, that's is when I turn atleast my taxi light on no matter what time a day or night. I like to light up as much as I can so others can see me. My son is working towards his ticket this summer and has about 35 hours in, so our plane is seeing more time this year. I feel like every time I get the plane out I have to change a bulb out, they have been lasting 5-10 hours so that's not bad. I have forgotten that alot of time for students is in the taffic pattern so the light is on alot more than normal.

I'll order a new Q bulb and see what happens

Thanks
Willie

I read somwhere, probably here, that the bulbs will last longer if ya rotate the bulbs so that the filament is vertical.

Chris Christensen wrote:I read somwhere, probably here, that the bulbs will last longer if ya rotate the bulbs so that the filament is vertical.

This is true, in my experience. But the 4509Q lamps last longer than ordinary 4509s turned 90 degrees. Sorry I don't have numbers.

The GE 4509 lamp is a PAR36 bulb which has a horizontal beam spread of approx 11-degrees, and a vertical spread of approx 6 -degrees. If you rotate the bulb several issues come up:
1. The beam is now 11-deg VERT. and 6-deg HORIZ. which will narrow the beam significantly, and also will create quite a bit of "glare" in fog, dust, smoke, etc.
2. The back side of the bulb has a "tooth" intended to locate/orient the bulb in the fixture. Depending upon which fixture you have, and which orientation you choose (tooth UP...or tooth DOWN) you may find the lamp will not be properly held.
3. The intent of orienting the filament in the vertical is to reduce the effect of vibration upon the failure mode. This was particularly troublesome in later airplanes which mounted the lamps on the engine cowling which transmitted a lot more vibration to the lamps. Wing mounts do not seem to benefit commensurately.

I have a surprise solution for all my critics here which I'll soon reveal in the coming weeks.

The suspense builds.......so far what you have help me with has worked.....so I'll wait.

I have found the answer to loooooong life for landing and taxi lights on my C-170B. My IA checks them at each annual inspection. Other than that, they never get turned on. I don't fly at night anymore. Hell, at my age I can't too well even in the daytime. Thank god, "Its a big sky up there".

W.J.Langholz wrote:... With out getting horn-schwoggled..... Willie

WHEN did I schwoggle you!

W.J.Langholz wrote:The suspense builds.......so far what you have help me with has worked.....so I'll wait.

It's not going to be what you think.

George

Never even thought about the pun, I forgot you are farther south than Minnesota" horn -swoggled "is and old fashion term up here like, hood-winked, pork in a barrel, conned etc etc. Now if I would have spelled it with a capital "H" that would have been different.........

Reading the other thread, hope all of you are safe and stay safe from Ike's devistation.

W.

W.J.Langholz wrote:George

Never even thought about the pun, I forgot you are farther south than Minnesota" horn -swoggled "is and old fashion term up here like, hood-winked, pork in a barrel, conned etc etc. Now if I would have spelled it with a capital "H" that would have been different.........
W.

Now, you've REALLY done it! Now your're suggesting ALL KINDS of nefarious behavior from me!

Down here in TEXAS, getting "Horn-schwoggled" means going out with friends and getting them filled with good local beer!

I DIDN'T KNOW you were saying I was "HOOD-WINKING, PORK-BARRELLING, CONNING" folks.... BOY! You are REALLY GONNA GET IT next time you need help!

gahorn wrote:The GE 4509 lamp is a PAR36 bulb which has a horizontal beam spread of 11-degrees, and a vertical spread of 6 -degrees. If you rotate the bulb several issues come up:
1. The beam is now 11-deg VERT. and 6-deg HORIZ. which will narrow the beam significantly, and also will create quite a bit of "glare" in fog, dust, smoke, etc.
2. The back side of the bulb has a "tooth" intended to locate/orient the bulb in the fixture. Depending upon which fixture you have, and which orientation you choose (tooth UP...or tooth DOWN) you may find the lamp will not be properly held.
3. The intent of orienting the filament in the vertical is to reduce the effect of vibration upon the failure mode. This was particularly troublesome in later airplanes which mounted the lamps on the engine cowling which transmitted a lot more vibration to the lamps. Wing mounts do not seem to benefit commensurately.

I have a surprise solution for all my critics here which I'll soon reveal in the coming weeks.

Let me guess... Fly knife edge!

Subject: Long Life Landing Lights

I can offer for sale a pair of super long life amazing magical landing lights. According to my airframe logs, these landing lights are original from Cessna in 1951 as they have never been replaced (or rotated 90 degrees). If you are interested, they are available for $50 each (all proceeeds to be donated to the association, of course).

Regards,
Jeff

Jeff, if you remove those lamps, you'll be replacing them forever!

The "Q" lamps have different problems. They are basically a "halogen" lamp which will last longer, but at the expense of darkening the reflector, so the light output is not as bright after a while. (Halogens last longer because their filaments are operated in a halogen atmosphere (inert gas) at higher temperatures (why they seem brighter) which evaporates the filament....but the increased temp and inert gas allow the filament to redeposit the filament metal (tungsten) back onto itself, instead of disintegrating like ordinary tungsten filaments.

Rotating a "Q" lamp does nothing, for the filament is already horizontal in a forward plane. Rotating it still has it horizontal.... but you've lost the usefulness of the beam in illuminating the runway width.

Here's another solution to short taxi-lamp life (if you're primarily interested in using it in the traffic pattern and getting longer lamp life): The original G.E. 4509 lamps have a 25-hour service life. This is because they are operating at the peak of their design output, at 100 watts and 110,000 candlepower, and focuses that beam very tightly which increases it's heat.

If you are using your TAXI position for anticollision purposes, you might consider swapping that 4509 lamp to a 4461 which is rated at 300 hours service life. This will be just as useful as an anticollision/recognition light but will spread the beam wider (30 horiz. X 25 vert. making it more useful as a taxi lamp in my opinion.) It will not make as bright a "spot" because it is a 60 watt lamp, (for comparison, standard auto headlamps are only 55 watts) but it will reduce the electrical load on your system. It will be every bit as useful in the traffic pattern and enroute for recognition. (And it is usually cheaper, typically $10-$12.)

PAR 36 lamps are commonly available at auto parts stores. tractor supply, and online, and the 4461, 4411, and such lamps that we might find useful are usually less expensive from those suppliers. (It is also not necessary in my opinion to stay with the G.E. brand. Wagner, Tung-Sol, Phillips, etc. are all good. The legality of using such lamps is a question which will likely rear it's head in parlors around the nation. I consider it a silly argument because there is no "requirement" for a particular amount of light output for our airplanes taxi/landing lights such as exists for navigation and anticollision lighting. And after all, a working recognition lamp is better than one that is burned out! Just stay within the power design of the electrical circuit (100 watts each lamp.)

Candlepower is similar to the richter-scale or the decibel-scales.... it's not linear, and it's unlikely that the 4461 lamp will not be bright enough for the purpose. In any case, the regular 100 watt 4509 LANDing lamp will still be available when you select the LAND lite position. PAR 36 lamps, with "screw" terminals are directly interchangeable physically with the original 4509 lamps, just be certain to not install a lamp that has greater wattage than 100W or you'll overload your circuit and likely "pop" the fuse or breaker.

There are other PAR 36 lamps available to study beginning on page 46: