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Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:48 pm
by mschwab
I have CE-170A #19620. She is apart but am making headway. Does anyone know where I could get Tip Assemblies for the Elevators/ Rudder? Appreciate any tips. Thanks
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:14 am
by hilltop170
Check with;
The 195 Factory, LLC
164 Hart Road
Amsterdam, NY 12010
518-882-6392
Email:
service@The195Factory.com
George will tell you they aren't legal because they are for a C-195 but they have the same part number, they are new, and fit perfectly.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:55 pm
by GAHorn
hilltop170 wrote:Check with;
The 195 Factory, LLC
164 Hart Road
Amsterdam, NY 12010
518-882-6392
Email:
service@The195Factory.com
George will tell you they aren't legal because they are for a C-195 but they have the same part number, they are new, and fit perfectly.
No I won't. They are from the same Cessna drawings.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:45 am
by hilltop170
gahorn wrote:hilltop170 wrote:...There are some parts however, such as elevator tips that are the same Cessna part number and are the same Cessna part on a C-195 and C-170. I needed two of them. Cessna did not have any and the 195 Factory did, complete with 8130 forms....
Actually, that is precisely the part I was thinking of when I mentioned parts which
appeared to be the same, but which are not.........
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:45 pm
by GAHorn
Richard,...you did not read the rest of that post. The rest of that post said, "...while they have physical dimensions which are identical, they have internal counterweights which are too heavy for a 170B. And, while they fit a a B, they will not fit a 170 or a 170A."
That was in reference to B-model elevator tips.... not A-model tips.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:08 pm
by Bruce Fenstermacher
To make everything clear.
170 and 170A elevator and horizontal tips are the same and not the same as 170B, L-19 or C-190/95.
170B elevator and horizontal tips are the same as L-19 or C-190/95 tips BUT according to George's sources the weight found in these tips is different.
As far as I know the rudder tip of all the 170 models as well as the L-19 are the same. Can't recall if the C-190/95 rudder tips are the same as the 170.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:04 pm
by jon s blocker
Are the people painting their elevators and rudders, rebalancing their surfaces? We found that ours didn't fall in the balance area and had to modify the weights in the elevator tips accordingly. My point being the weights might have to be changed anyway if you are rebuilding or painting. Jon
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:14 am
by 3958v
I am not positive but I think Bruce is wrong. I got a set of elevator tips from the 195 people and they were a perfect match for my ragwing tips. I believe that the 48 and A model have the same skins on their elevator and upper rudder as the 195. Not sure how it was done but the 195 had weights in the tips of their elevators but the skin and tips were the same. When Cessna decided to put weights in the tips of the 170 B they made a slightly different elevator. I know what Bruce was saying seems more logical but I know from side by side comparisions that my 48 elevators look the same as a 195 but different than a 170B. I also know if you pick up my elevator it is much heavier than a 195 because of no counter balance. Somthing that surprises 195 owners is the fact that the 170 actally has more rudder area than a 195 because does not get cut off by the tail cone like a 195. Bill K
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:27 am
by GAHorn
3958v wrote:I am not positive but I think Bruce is wrong. I got a set of elevator tips from the 195 people and they were a perfect match for my ragwing tips. I believe that the 48 and A model have the same skins on their elevator and upper rudder as the 195. ... Bill K
That's what Bruce was saying, I believe. The ragwing (170), A-model, and 190/195 share many tailfeathers. The L-19 (being developed from the 170-B) shares tailfeathers with the B-model. HOWEVER... despite physical similarities all control surfaces should be properly checked for balance during installation.
(The 190/195 rudder is quite different in span (total height/length) than any 170, although the upper structure is similar.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:27 pm
by Bruce Fenstermacher
N9149A wrote:To make everything clear.
170 and 170A elevator and horizontal tips are the same and not the same as 170B, L-19 or C-190/95.
170B elevator and horizontal tips are the same as L-19 or C-190/95 tips BUT according to George's sources the weight found in these tips is different.
As far as I know the rudder tip of all the 170 models as well as the L-19 are the same. Can't recall if the C-190/95 rudder tips are the same as the 170.
Well. I'm absolutely sure that every thing I said about tips,
besides anything to do with the C-190/95, is correct. There may be a few parts in common between the 170 or the 170A and the 170B or L-19 horizontal stabilizer like the leading edge but not many. There is more difference than just tips and weights. The 170B and L-19 horizontal stab is the same size and shape as the 170 and 170A but has more hinges and at different places. There is nothing in common between the elevators of the 170 or 170A and the 170B and L-19.
I knew the C-190/95 elevator was different in some way than all models off 170 horizontal stabilizers and elevators but thought I remember just the elevator tips did match the 170B. It's been a will since I studied the 190/95 tail feathers but would never consider that the elevator tips actually matched the 170 and 170A so I will have to default to Bill's experience there.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:13 pm
by hilltop170
The tips I was talking about are the one piece formed sheet metal leading edge tips on the balance section of the elevator. It's usually the front tip of that piece that gets bashed-in. There is no lead weight or anything else attached to them.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:18 pm
by GAHorn
The 170-B and the L-19 share the same tips, but with different amount of lead weights within them. (Drill out the excess lead if you use them on a B-model.)
The 190/195/170/170A may share tips.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:37 pm
by hilltop170
I give up!
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:44 pm
by GAHorn
mschwab wrote:... Does anyone know where I could get Tip Assemblies for the Elevators/ Rudder? ...
Richard, YOU are referring only to the leading edge strip...but mschwab, Bruce, and myself are all discussing the entire ASSEMBLY.
Re: Rudder/Elevator Tip Assemblies
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:55 pm
by hilltop170
Right! OK, now I understand, I thought I wasn't piercing the void there for awhile.