L.E.D. Navigation/Strobes/Interior Lights

[gparker]

Following George's lead, I modified my Grimes torpedo lights just like George did and replaced the original bulbs with LEDs. The Grimes lights were dim and uneven, and did almost nothing to illuminate the panel. The new LEDs however are a 1000% improvement. They cast a broad, even swath of red light over the entire panel. Even if I cover one of the bulbs, there is still plenty of light. Everyone should do this. My lights will not dim, however. They are almost too bright. I will have to repaint my glareshield so that the places where the paint has worn off dont cast glare on the inside of the windshield. Don't know why mine won't dim-- the old bulbs did, and I bought the same bulbs as George.

[GAHorn]

It's possible your rheostat hasn't sufficient resistance. You can try one of two things:
Replace the rheostat with an Ohmite RHS100E, 25 watt, 100 ohm series "E" Allied PN 296-4094
http://www.alliedelec.com (800-433-5700) ...about $25... OR you can insert in-series with your present
light-dimmer/rheostat a ceramic resistor from Radio Shack or some other place. They're cheap, and
you might experiment with 10- to 50 Ohms to start.

[CAVU Mark]

How about a bit on some strobes now...

I have two strobes, one red on the top of the fuselage and one white on the belly. The belly strobe did not work due to the fact it had no power supply. At the recent annual it was removed and a placard installed stated "daytime VFR only".

I was going to install a Whelen Flasher model 70509 (which states it meets 23.1401) but the IA who did the annual said the Flasher is not like the strobe we removed and I need a strobe. He then sold me a used Whelen HF-CFA unit for cheap. There was then some discussion about older aircraft not being required to meet this FAR depending upon what was originally installed. Since he did not recall what was originally installed he could not comment.

So I now have a HF-CFA with a red/white lens which I plan on installing in the belly. The other issue is the STC on the used strobe is SA615ES and it covers most 172s and STC SA800ES covers the 170. This apparently can be overcome with a 337.

So, what is my question? Does anyone know of this rule about older aircraft and relaxed requirements for 23.1401? Can I install the Flasher if this Strobe does not work out?

I do want a strobe on the belly because each time I mention this to Mr. Shockey he reminds me of when a climbing B-52 whizzed by him close enough for him to see the rivets. Besides is makes good sense.

[russfarris]

What was originally installed was nothing. Nav lights, with an optional flasher was it. Red rotating beacons for light aircraft became available in the late 1950s, and strobe lights didn't make their appearance until the late '60s.

Russ Farris

[GAHorn]

It's important to keep things in proper reference when considering these sort of questions. For example:
FAR 23 superceded CAR 3 (which is the rule under which OUR C-170's were certificated) and provides the rule (23.1401) that describes the requirements for anticollision lighting. In other words....IF you are building an airplane TODAY, as a MANUFACTURER you must comply with FAR 23.1401.

YOU however are not a mfr'r...you are an operator, and the FAR which applies to operations is FAR 91. The Part 91 rule applying to general aviation aircraft anticollision lighting is FAR 91.205(c), which states in part:

"3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on all U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initially installed after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificate was issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet the anticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, as applicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the color may be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may be continued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made."

In other words, if you are operating an older airplane which has original lighting such as flashers or rotating beacons...you may continue to operate those systems. BUT...if you REPLACE those older units with something else after 1971, the new stuff must meet the requirements of FAR 23.

The best resource to determine what our 170s require (and to compare that minimum requirement to what a prudent person would actually WISH to have in-compliance with more modern rules) is the Whelen installation manual, which basically says you need two units if they are fuselage mounted, one on top and one on bottom.

Here's the manual, and if you read it and look at the pretty pictures, it should answer all these questions. (Hint: if you have a very original 170 such as mine was the day I bought it... the simplest answer is to install wingtip strobes which piggy-back onto your nav lights. If it were MY choice, I'd get rid of any fuselage-mounted units (sell them online) and convert to the nav-lite piggy-backs.)

Anti-Collision_Light_Systems_Installation_and_Service_Manual.pdf

(1.64 MiB) Downloaded 640 times

[CAVU Mark]

Gracias... Whelen says their flasher 70509 meets these requirements as per the Installation and Service Manual which would be an acceptable strobe provided the used one was not available. The used strobe I purchased will also meet the requirements and so I will go with that. It is a very inexpensive fix ($20) as long as the wiring is intact. If money were no problem I would probably opt for the position/strobe arrangement but my fear is that they add a few inches to the wing span and my hangar is kinda close now. In fact I already lost the right position light !@#$%%^ I do like the LED technology but believe the pricing on these, as well as household lights, are a corporate scam.

[GAHorn]

Gracias... Whelen says their flasher 70509 meets these requirements as per the Installation and Service Manual which would be an acceptable strobe provided the used one was not available. The used strobe I purchased will also meet the requirements and so I will go with that. It is a very inexpensive fix ($20) as long as the wiring is intact. If money were no problem I would probably opt for the position/strobe arrangement but my fear is that they add a few inches to the wing span and my hangar is kinda close now. In fact I already lost the right position light !@#$%%^ I do like the LED technology but believe the pricing on these, as well as household lights, are a corporate scam.

If you re-read this entire discussion-thread you will see how to inexpensively convert your incandescent nav lights to LED.

[CAVU Mark]

Yes, I recall the discussion on the side lighting LEDs for NAV, re: legal, 1156 vs 1157 and red LEDs with red lenses etc...
but I don't recall an inexpensive method to add the strobes to the wing tips. I will re-read, thanks.

[GAHorn]

The side-light LEDs are for cabin dome light. 1156/1157 are for nav lites. No led strobe info.

[mekstrand]

Has anyone determined which LED lights would be a suitable replacement for a Grimes rotating beacon?

[GAHorn]

Has anyone determined which LED lights would be a suitable replacement for a Grimes rotating beacon?

This one: http://www.ledlight.com/s25-36-super-br ... light.aspx

[mekstrand]

Thanks for the quick response George.

Marshall

[GAHorn]

George,
I did read between the lines. One issue I have noted is trying to achieve a consistant ground on the bulb base after filing off one of the bases locking pins. I have applied a single layer wrap of Aluminum tape to the base and this seems to help. Perhaps is these bulbs do win approval the bulb manufature will make some that have the pins in the proper location.

I received a call this week from another member with a similar problem.... He wasn't trying the LED installation, but he WAS experiencing a problem obtaining a good "ground" for his nav lights..... It seems they are intermittent/flickering and he wanted to know what to do about it.

If you go thru this entire discussion you might see where I discussed the nature/construction of these Grimes/Whelen nav light fixtures. They are basically a socket...however they have a different assembly/construction than automotive sockets.
They are "bottomless"....meaning that their electrical connections are actually threaded onto the body via a "ferrule"....an internally-threaded "ring" which contains the actual contacts for the base of the bulb/lamp to make contact.

IF....that ferrule is not completely threaded onto the barrel of the fixture/socket... the bulb/lamp is not held securely and a good ground is not assured. IF, on the other hand, the ferrule is threaded TOO tightly...the bulb/lamp is held too tightly and cannot be removed/replaced (unless the ferrule is loosened somewhat.)

Whenever installing a lamp, inspect the socket and clean it with steel wool, sandpaper, etc. and then shoot it with electronics cleaner or alcohol (to remove any wool/sand)...then use a little silcone grease (such as Dow Corning DC-4 or similar, available from automotive supliers) to lubricate the base of the bulb/lamp. Install the bulb/lamp...and screw the ferrule "snug". Be CERTAIN that good contact is made between the nav light fixture and the airframe when you reinstall the fixture. (The airframe is the return-path to ground for this electrical circuit. If you cannot obtain a good ground directly when attaching the fixture...then attach a short jumper wire to the fixture-to-airframe.)

Johneeb... I take it that you finally obtained a good ground and that was your problem as well.

[johneeb]

George,
I did read between the lines. One issue I have noted is trying to achieve a consistant ground on the bulb base after filing off one of the bases locking pins. I have applied a single layer wrap of Aluminum tape to the base and this seems to help. Perhaps is these bulbs do win approval the bulb manufature will make some that have the pins in the proper location.

I received a call this week from another member with a similar problem.... He wasn't trying the LED installation, but he WAS experiencing a problem obtaining a good "ground" for his nav lights..... It seems they are intermittent/flickering and he wanted to know what to do about it.

If you go thru this entire discussion you might see where I discussed the nature/construction of these Grimes/Whelen nav light fixtures. They are basically a socket...however they have a different assembly/construction than automotive sockets.
They are "bottomless"....meaning that their electrical connections are actually threaded onto the body via a "ferrule"....an internally-threaded "ring" which contains the actual contacts for the base of the bulb/lamp to make contact.

IF....that ferrule is not completely threaded onto the barrel of the fixture/socket... the bulb/lamp is not held securely and a good ground is not assured. IF, on the other hand, the ferrule is threaded TOO tightly...the bulb/lamp is held too tightly and cannot be removed/replaced (unless the ferrule is loosened somewhat.)

Whenever installing a lamp, inspect the socket and clean it with steel wool, sandpaper, etc. and then shoot it with electronics cleaner or alcohol (to remove any wool/sand)...then use a little silcone grease (such as Dow Corning DC-4 or similar, available from automotive supliers) to lubricate the base of the bulb/lamp. Install the bulb/lamp...and screw the ferrule "snug". Be CERTAIN that good contact is made between the nav light fixture and the airframe when you reinstall the fixture. (The airframe is the return-path to ground for this electrical circuit. If you cannot obtain a good ground directly when attaching the fixture...then attach a short jumper wire to the fixture-to-airframe.)

Johneeb... I take it that you finally obtained a good ground and that was your problem as well.

George, the real fix came about when I found I could buy LED bulbs from Spruce that had the proper pin arrrangement, which ment I did not have to remove one of the retaining pins from the side of the base of the balb. No more ground contact problem.
Johneb

[GAHorn]

Yes...I need to bring that into this discussion when I have a bit more time (I presently have to dash off to work.) Spruce now handles some LEDs by a guy who claims they are "standard parts".... I talked about an hour diretly with him....his LEDs are no different than the 1157 ones from the outfit I previously found except they are differently numbered/cataloged.
He charges near-aircraft prices for them but by the time one pays shipping, etc. it's not that much different than what I paid for my long-winded experiment.