After much searching, it has become evident that there are two problems in my area of the country. There are no hangars available and the going rate for a hangar is in excess of the monthly payment on my airplane...kind of like putting the wagon in front of the horse. Waiting lists at most small airports are such that I'll lose my medical before I get a hangar. I'm starting to think of buying land and building my own airstrip, perhaps with some other local pilots. An airport run by pilots in order to keep costs down, and would permit pilots to build thier own hangars.
I know there are several manufacturers of light steel hangars in kit form from around $5k in TAP. I've even seen some neat basic designs in steel truss and wood that probably didn't cost over $2k to build. I want to know what experiences you folks have had with building your own hagars. Did you go the steel kit route...or did you build you own out of plans in your head? Trying to get the research done so that I can make a presentation to local pilots who are fed up with the high prices and waiting lists. If the local airports will not let us build on their land, we'll just buy/lease a tract and build our own airport! Thoughts and ideas?
Hangars
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Hanger Costs
Typically in Idaho, hangers are built on land leased to the builder. The lease is for between 8 and 24 cents per square foot for 99 years with 5 year rate adjustments. People then buy and sell the hangers, including the lease. Near Salt Lake City (Sky Park) some guys with hangers ended up buying their airport that was going to be closed.
Hangers are based on local building codes. Some areas here have none and you can put up any kind of structure. Other areas have strict fire and use codes, including such things as how much snow depth the roof must support.
Both metal and wood buildings are used. Many have constructed Cleary (sp) buildings which are wood framed and sheeted with aluminum. A top of the line Cleary Hanger type building with concrete floor, electrical and some heat will run about $24k completed. The building itself is about $14 to $17K for a 50 by 60 foot structure. A building of this type can house about 2 GA aircraft.
Smaller single aircraft hangers can be built to strict building codes for about $15k. Other hangers I've seen were built from rough cut lumber, (portable saw mill and trees from the guys land), and put together for just the time and concrete costs.
I've seen single plane quonset (sp) hut hangers built for about $8K. They are a half circle made of free supporting sheet bolted together with a door and concrete floor.
In Idaho, you might be able to buy the land for an airport (40 to 50 acres) and put in a hanger for about $75k or so. To get it paved is about another $200k. My guess is for about $325k with a basic building you can build a new private paved GA airport in Idaho, not including the local, state and federal paperwork costs.
We were quoted by the State of Idaho the following: The paper work/engineering costs to make a city airport (built during the 1930s under the CC program) to be in compliance with federal regs inorder to to receive federal funding was between $300k and $500k. This was to recieve federal funding grant to pave it for $200k.
Hangers are based on local building codes. Some areas here have none and you can put up any kind of structure. Other areas have strict fire and use codes, including such things as how much snow depth the roof must support.
Both metal and wood buildings are used. Many have constructed Cleary (sp) buildings which are wood framed and sheeted with aluminum. A top of the line Cleary Hanger type building with concrete floor, electrical and some heat will run about $24k completed. The building itself is about $14 to $17K for a 50 by 60 foot structure. A building of this type can house about 2 GA aircraft.
Smaller single aircraft hangers can be built to strict building codes for about $15k. Other hangers I've seen were built from rough cut lumber, (portable saw mill and trees from the guys land), and put together for just the time and concrete costs.
I've seen single plane quonset (sp) hut hangers built for about $8K. They are a half circle made of free supporting sheet bolted together with a door and concrete floor.
In Idaho, you might be able to buy the land for an airport (40 to 50 acres) and put in a hanger for about $75k or so. To get it paved is about another $200k. My guess is for about $325k with a basic building you can build a new private paved GA airport in Idaho, not including the local, state and federal paperwork costs.
We were quoted by the State of Idaho the following: The paper work/engineering costs to make a city airport (built during the 1930s under the CC program) to be in compliance with federal regs inorder to to receive federal funding was between $300k and $500k. This was to recieve federal funding grant to pave it for $200k.
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
John,I will bet that permitting for the hangar(s) is gonna be a small problem compared to permitting for the airstrip itself. Unless you're really out in the sticks,and sometimes even then,zoning will be an issue. Any building permit/comditional use permit/change in zoning around here requires a public review process. Anyone living within about 5 miles of the airport will start squacking,citing concerns about safety issues,airplane noise,and property value impact. Especially of there will be more than one airplane based there. The county commissioners who have to approve your airstrip know they have to answer to the voting public,so too mmuch squacking equals no airstrip.
Good luck,I think you've got an uphill battle ahead of you. Might almost be better to build the strip,start using iot,and just tell everybody to go to h*** when they start griping.
I would think that you'd be better off if you can buy into an existing airstrip that's grandfathered in,more so if it is FAA-recognized--in other words,depicted on the sectional. Or maybe buy a home or lot on an airpark,trouble is it seems like alot of those have some kind of "us against them" things going on between the residents.
I own a hangar unit in a 9 unit T-hangar condo building on our county airport. We have a 50 year ground lease with about 44 years left. We are currently paying $.43 per square foot of building footprint,although the lease includes the apron in front of the hangars. Lease rate is adjusted for inflation annually,and adjusted for "market rate" every three years.At the end of the lease,ownership reverts to the Port authority. Not the greatest lease,but the lease was negotiated by the builder,not the end users.Not really his fault,all the condo hangars here have similar lease terms. Currently,the condo fees for a hangar unit in my building are around $800 a year--this covers ground lease,power,book-keeping fees & insurance. This is a break-even amount,in the past our fees were set as to build up a cah reserve for any needed repairs to the lighting,etc.
Going rate for one of these hangars on our airport (there are about 8 of these buildings) is around $30K for a used one,3-6 years old,they're around 920 sq feet--that works out to 32.60 per. New,the guys currently building a couple big box hangars are getting around $33-35 per square foot, and they have a waiting list for openings.
A friend of mine is building condo T-hangars on a Seattle area airport. The going rate for one of his is around $38K if I recall. Similar lease, lower per square foot but based on hangar plus apron area,so it's actually higher than what we pay.
Cheaper to build one yourself? Yes,you're cutting out the middleman (builder) and his profit. But there is so much red tape involved with building on a publicly-owned and/or FAA-funded airport you wouldn't believe it. As much as a year (or more) of waiting for SEPA reports,FAA approval,airport master plan updates,lease negotiation,yada yada yada.Then the actual construction,and it's hassles. The builder more than earns any profit he makes.
Eric
Good luck,I think you've got an uphill battle ahead of you. Might almost be better to build the strip,start using iot,and just tell everybody to go to h*** when they start griping.
I would think that you'd be better off if you can buy into an existing airstrip that's grandfathered in,more so if it is FAA-recognized--in other words,depicted on the sectional. Or maybe buy a home or lot on an airpark,trouble is it seems like alot of those have some kind of "us against them" things going on between the residents.
I own a hangar unit in a 9 unit T-hangar condo building on our county airport. We have a 50 year ground lease with about 44 years left. We are currently paying $.43 per square foot of building footprint,although the lease includes the apron in front of the hangars. Lease rate is adjusted for inflation annually,and adjusted for "market rate" every three years.At the end of the lease,ownership reverts to the Port authority. Not the greatest lease,but the lease was negotiated by the builder,not the end users.Not really his fault,all the condo hangars here have similar lease terms. Currently,the condo fees for a hangar unit in my building are around $800 a year--this covers ground lease,power,book-keeping fees & insurance. This is a break-even amount,in the past our fees were set as to build up a cah reserve for any needed repairs to the lighting,etc.
Going rate for one of these hangars on our airport (there are about 8 of these buildings) is around $30K for a used one,3-6 years old,they're around 920 sq feet--that works out to 32.60 per. New,the guys currently building a couple big box hangars are getting around $33-35 per square foot, and they have a waiting list for openings.
A friend of mine is building condo T-hangars on a Seattle area airport. The going rate for one of his is around $38K if I recall. Similar lease, lower per square foot but based on hangar plus apron area,so it's actually higher than what we pay.
Cheaper to build one yourself? Yes,you're cutting out the middleman (builder) and his profit. But there is so much red tape involved with building on a publicly-owned and/or FAA-funded airport you wouldn't believe it. As much as a year (or more) of waiting for SEPA reports,FAA approval,airport master plan updates,lease negotiation,yada yada yada.Then the actual construction,and it's hassles. The builder more than earns any profit he makes.
Eric
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Matthew_bailey
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 2:50 am
Just an idea...Here are some airparks in VA. I thought of building my own grass strip, but found the cost/risk factor was too high. With an airpark you roll the hanger cost into the mortgage.
Amelia Merlin Aerodrome (2VA3) 3,200' Turf.
25 miles west of Richmond, residential airpark caters to gliders and single engine aircraft. 5-30 acre lots available
Berryville Cedar Meadows Airpark 3,000
Boydton Kenwill Flying "V" Reidential Airpark 2,500' Turf.
Local fresh water lakes, boating, fishing, swim, and camping. Federal and state parks nearby
Edwardsville Jett Airpark (2VA1) 2,450' professionally excavated turf runway. Close to marinas and golf courses
Fredericksburg Dogwood Airpark (VA42) 4,100' Paved. Easy access to DC and Richmond
Martinsville Loury Lester Airpark (6VA2) 4,000 Grass
Moneta Smith Mountain Lake Airport (W91) 3,000' Paved
Riner Deer Run (VA06) 2,300' Turf
Waynesboro Eagles Nest (W13) 2,000' Paved
Matt
Amelia Merlin Aerodrome (2VA3) 3,200' Turf.
25 miles west of Richmond, residential airpark caters to gliders and single engine aircraft. 5-30 acre lots available
Berryville Cedar Meadows Airpark 3,000
Boydton Kenwill Flying "V" Reidential Airpark 2,500' Turf.
Local fresh water lakes, boating, fishing, swim, and camping. Federal and state parks nearby
Edwardsville Jett Airpark (2VA1) 2,450' professionally excavated turf runway. Close to marinas and golf courses
Fredericksburg Dogwood Airpark (VA42) 4,100' Paved. Easy access to DC and Richmond
Martinsville Loury Lester Airpark (6VA2) 4,000 Grass
Moneta Smith Mountain Lake Airport (W91) 3,000' Paved
Riner Deer Run (VA06) 2,300' Turf
Waynesboro Eagles Nest (W13) 2,000' Paved
Matt
In Texas a property owner is entitled to the "enjoyment of the use of his property". My 3400' grass runway takes up 10.5 acres (3400' X 135') and acreage in central TX varies from $500 to $4500 per acre depending upon location of course. (My property adjoins a lake and overlooks a river valley that runs the price up.)
My 50 X 50 hangar with 16' eaves cost $24K with me and my friends doing most of the work except the concrete which I contracted out. The concrete amounted to almost $10K (on a slight slope that required levelling.) The bldg materials made up the rest with a couple $K for various welding and construction labor I didn't trust myself to do. I'm happy with my hangar now that it's up, but if I had it to do over again, I'd purchase a ready-engineered bldg form Rhino Steel Bldgs in Denton Tx and hire a crew to erect it. The bldg would cost about $12K, the slab $10K, and erection would be $5K. (My weld-up is made from I-beams, etc, the same as a pre-engineered bolt-up, ...but the bolt-up would carry engineering guarantees that are non-existant with a weld-up,...and the bolt-up erects much more quickly,....5 days as opposed to the 5 weeks it took to build a weld-up from materials. The bolt-up also would come already painted with red-oxide anti-rust paint which I spent the better part of 10 days having to do myself on my framework before we could install the sheet metal.) I also insulated my hangar, which I recommend in all climes.
The door is another issue. The simplest would be a "slide-open" set of doors which would work manually. It could be constructed on-site for about $1500. That's what I'd do if I had it to do over again. A "bi-fold" will cost between $6K-$10K depending upon actual size and installation costs. The "Hydro-swing" doors are a type I'd avoid at all costs. They stress the bldg too much and they are flimsy and dangerous in any sort of wind. On a calm day even they are clearly too flexible and shaky. I don't feel safe walking beneath them.
I prefer a rigid overhead door raised by cable. My 2 cents.
My 50 X 50 hangar with 16' eaves cost $24K with me and my friends doing most of the work except the concrete which I contracted out. The concrete amounted to almost $10K (on a slight slope that required levelling.) The bldg materials made up the rest with a couple $K for various welding and construction labor I didn't trust myself to do. I'm happy with my hangar now that it's up, but if I had it to do over again, I'd purchase a ready-engineered bldg form Rhino Steel Bldgs in Denton Tx and hire a crew to erect it. The bldg would cost about $12K, the slab $10K, and erection would be $5K. (My weld-up is made from I-beams, etc, the same as a pre-engineered bolt-up, ...but the bolt-up would carry engineering guarantees that are non-existant with a weld-up,...and the bolt-up erects much more quickly,....5 days as opposed to the 5 weeks it took to build a weld-up from materials. The bolt-up also would come already painted with red-oxide anti-rust paint which I spent the better part of 10 days having to do myself on my framework before we could install the sheet metal.) I also insulated my hangar, which I recommend in all climes.
The door is another issue. The simplest would be a "slide-open" set of doors which would work manually. It could be constructed on-site for about $1500. That's what I'd do if I had it to do over again. A "bi-fold" will cost between $6K-$10K depending upon actual size and installation costs. The "Hydro-swing" doors are a type I'd avoid at all costs. They stress the bldg too much and they are flimsy and dangerous in any sort of wind. On a calm day even they are clearly too flexible and shaky. I don't feel safe walking beneath them.
I prefer a rigid overhead door raised by cable. My 2 cents.
Last edited by GAHorn on Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's it.... I want to move to Texas!
Anyone know what other state governments think
a property owner is "entitled to enjoy his property"?
I might consider moving there too...
In my state, I'm entitled to pay my property taxes and
keep my mouth shut. In fact, we're entitled to vote
against something (majority), yet still keep our mouths
shut when politicians do whatever it is they wanted to do in
the 1st place.
Sorry for the off-topic reply, ya just "pressed a button of
mine".....
Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP
Anyone know what other state governments think
a property owner is "entitled to enjoy his property"?
I might consider moving there too...
In my state, I'm entitled to pay my property taxes and
keep my mouth shut. In fact, we're entitled to vote
against something (majority), yet still keep our mouths
shut when politicians do whatever it is they wanted to do in
the 1st place.
Sorry for the off-topic reply, ya just "pressed a button of
mine".....
Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP
George, you state that your strip (air) takes up 10.5 acres. What do you think would be the size of land that would have to be purchased to put in a strip? Would 15 acres be enough, or would it be more like 20? Of course, if a person couldn't buy a long retangular piece of property, it would even be more acreage.
Joe
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
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funseventy
- Posts: 230
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:46 pm
I just built a hangar at the Priest River, ID airport. I pay $400 per year for the land on a 30 year lease. It's a 40x50 wood construction hangar engineered for the snow load and a Schwiess Bi-Fold Door. I had it built as a turn Key deal including electric and heat and a nice slab for $34K. I have had my 170, a 140, and a Pacer in there at the same time. I've had 3 Cessna 206's in a 50x50 with one of them on Amphib floats. My Bi-fold door was $3100 delivered. My wife's a flight instructor too, and I didn't want her to have to wrestle with the doors. I've been around a lot of hangars and you don't go cheap when it comes to doors.
I worry about someone wanting to build a hangar for under $10K. Don't forget what you're putting in there.
Kelly
I worry about someone wanting to build a hangar for under $10K. Don't forget what you're putting in there.
Kelly
I guess I don't follow the question, Joe. As I said, my strip is 3400 X 135 and takes up 10.5 acres. My paved strip is 4200 X 135 and takes up roughly 12 acres. Clearly if you can find land that is long and level that's for sale it'll be easier.N1478D wrote:George, you state that your strip (air) takes up 10.5 acres. What do you think would be the size of land that would have to be purchased to put in a strip? Would 15 acres be enough, or would it be more like 20? Of course, if a person couldn't buy a long retangular piece of property, it would even be more acreage.
In Texas there are sometimes strips of land (that appear worthless for any use at all because of their narrowness and length) for sale through the Veterans Land Board. I recall when I flew for the Gen. Land Ofc, that the "Tract II" auctions sometimes had them for ridicuous prices. I remember one strip of land 2600' long by 85 feet wide dead-ending on Hwy 21 that was level pasture and seemed perfect to put a hangar/house at one end. It's minimum bid to own was $12K. It was in the Vet. Land Board's Tract II book even included the minerals (These are repossessions from Texas Vets who quit making payments on them, that other Vets have already had a chance to buy but didn't. Any person may bid on them.) The terms were Zero down, 100% financing, 4.5% interest, with closing costs about $400.
Contact any realtor or the Texas Veterans Land Board (listed in the phone book) and ask for a Tract II book to be mailed to you. If you are a Veteran living in Texas, you can also buy from the Tract I book, which are lands yet to be declined by Vets to be later listed in the Tract II book.
By concidence, I wrote a database for the VLB that is administered by the BOND division of a Mortgage company. I remember seeing those books with the listings and totally forgot about them. 
I'll ask that client about getting my hands on a recent listing. The question was not very clear, I was asking your opinion about how much additional land you thought would be needed for a comfortable situation - fences, easements, neighbors, trees, power lines, etc.
I'll ask that client about getting my hands on a recent listing. The question was not very clear, I was asking your opinion about how much additional land you thought would be needed for a comfortable situation - fences, easements, neighbors, trees, power lines, etc.Joe
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
51 C170A
Grand Prairie, TX
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eichenberger
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:27 pm
John - I've represented clients who have done just what you suggest, and few where happy with the outcome. Let me give you a few points of thought:
Others have mentioned the zoning issues - be thorough and careful. Don't build something, and then have a long, drawn out legal battle with the local authorities, which you may well lose.
If you build an airstrip and hangar, remember that your re-sale market is very poor in many parts of the country. Most airplane owners don't want to be on a grass strip; many airplanes, like Mooneys just can't fly off of grass fields.
The same goes for housing airparks. Your housing units have limited resale - to pilots only. Same issues about grass fields.
If you build a hangar on a public airport, on leased land, your eventual market is much better. But building costs usually go up, due to prevailing wage laws, and the kind of hangar they may make you build. At one airport here in Ohio, the airport authority demands that every T hangar building be handicapped accessible, and have a restroom in it. That may be stupid to us, but "them's the rules".
Just tread carefully, and get competent help who knows the lay of the land where you are.
Jerry
Others have mentioned the zoning issues - be thorough and careful. Don't build something, and then have a long, drawn out legal battle with the local authorities, which you may well lose.
If you build an airstrip and hangar, remember that your re-sale market is very poor in many parts of the country. Most airplane owners don't want to be on a grass strip; many airplanes, like Mooneys just can't fly off of grass fields.
The same goes for housing airparks. Your housing units have limited resale - to pilots only. Same issues about grass fields.
If you build a hangar on a public airport, on leased land, your eventual market is much better. But building costs usually go up, due to prevailing wage laws, and the kind of hangar they may make you build. At one airport here in Ohio, the airport authority demands that every T hangar building be handicapped accessible, and have a restroom in it. That may be stupid to us, but "them's the rules".
Just tread carefully, and get competent help who knows the lay of the land where you are.
Jerry
Well, I suppose that's all a matter of personal preference. I would prefer to have excess runway and put the fences at the very ends. It makes for much more comfort when landing hot on wet grass. (Not that I'd ever do such a thing.)N1478D wrote:By concidence, I wrote a database for the VLB that is administered by the BOND division of a Mortgage company. I remember seeing those books with the listings and totally forgot about them.
I realize this airplane will supposedly operate off of 2K feet down at our elevations, but my 3400 feet has a 20' power line at one end, and I've looked at the grain of the wood in the tops of those poles a couple of times when leaving out with 4 people, baggage, etc, on a hot summer day. I consider my 10.5 acres for a grass runway minimum. (Joe, my house is not on that 10.5, as you may recall from your visit here. There is an addt'l 3 acres of tie-down area, plus 1.5 acres for my house/yard. The total for my paved 4200' on it's 135 ROW, and my 3400 X 135 grass, plus the tie down and home is 27 acres. But I believe a person can fit a nice home/hangar/turf rwy in on 15 acres if there's no obstacles and it's shaped like a sufficiently long rectangle. I wouldn't consider a turf rwy of less than 3,000 feet if I was planning on starting a project.
While most rough strips are unuseable to a Mooney, I disagree that a Mooney can't use a non-paved runway. It just has to be smooth because of the short coupled and stiff gear. I've operated Mooneys off of well-rolled short turf without problems. I've had KingAir 90 and Twin Bo's and 400 series Cessnas on my 3400 turf. (The twin-Cessna's stiff and flimsy gearlegs disliked it, but there was no safety or mx problem. The Beech's did fine, as do Bonanzas, and my Baron.)
Rats! So from what I am hearing, it sounds like I can afford to keep my C-170B or else I will have to sell it in order to afford a hangar! Well, I'm just going to keep working on this issue. I think this is another area that I can get around the line of thinking that says "if it says airplane it has to be expensive". Reminds me of when I was looking at sailboats or sport fishermen...that is until I found out how much these people payed monthly for their slips! You would almost think the little space of water was worth more that the boat. I'm just not going to settle for a hangar that costs ANYWHERE near what I paid for my airplane. I'll check those $5K hangars out in TAP. Seems a basic light steel structure to house a 170 could be had for way under $10K. I'm just considering the kit price as I'll do all the mechanical and electrical myself. With good placement of wedges, levers, jacks and hoists one person can erect a pretty good size building. I'll see about the possibility of building on airport property, but the folks that run Front Royal airport don't seem to be to pilot friendly. Thanks for the help and ideas!
John, 2734C in Summit Point, WV
Well, if you're wishing to build a hangar dirt-cheap, all you have to do is sink 4 creosoted poles in the ground, nail or bolt 2 X 8's for eaves, purchase some C-purlins to lay across the top for rafters and attach them with screws to the eaves, and then screw sheet metal down on them.
But a dirt floor is susceptible to moisture and will not prevent corrosion in an airplane in long-term storage in such a facility. You could later pour a slab or lay down gravel and roll asphalt upon it. Ordinary swing-doors will work if properly supported by struts or cables.
But a dirt floor is susceptible to moisture and will not prevent corrosion in an airplane in long-term storage in such a facility. You could later pour a slab or lay down gravel and roll asphalt upon it. Ordinary swing-doors will work if properly supported by struts or cables.