Hangars

JDH · Post by **JDH** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:15 pm

Food for thought:
If you are fortunate enough to have a strip on your own property, then, sky is the limit, especially if you live in the South. Large, with office space in the mesanine, indoor plumbing and maybe indoor pool... But if you are not and you have a choice between putting up a stick post barn type hangar or shelter, that you will need to drive one hour to get to, in the outskirts or different county, with no services or security (you are only protecting from the elements); and putting up a more expensive, conventional (gotta match the other structures on the field), concrete floor, seperate electric meter, type hangar, 15 minutes away. You have to consider that the shelter in the country will never appreciate cause a guy can build one for the same price 5 years from now. As with the expensive strips, in town hangars will always have more appeal to more pilots who "need" to fly and will most likely appreciate in time.
Lets face it, this is an expensive hobby. I don't want it more expensive than it is now and do wish it was more affordable, but since I'm spending the money, for me, a hangar makes it more enjoyable. The better we look after our birds, the more enjoyable they are and the more valuable they become. Did you ever thinnk, 10 years ago that you would see C120's selling for 20 or 25K US $$???
I have never been happier than since I bought my hangar; I don't have to pack up the tools to go eat; just close the doors. When we get freezing rain or winds ovedr 60 MPH, or 3' of snow, I still go check (its only a 5 minutes from the house), but feel alot more secure against Mother Nature's elements and vandals, thieves, etc.
After a long day out, coming in after dark, its just open the door: 1 minute, push the plane in: 2 minutes and close the door: 1 minute. I can be in the car on my way 10 minutes after short final... In bad weather or strong X-winds, I am reminded of trying to install wing, tail, canopy and engine covers when the wind never works in your favor, vs. 10 minutes from final to a car ride home...
Costs are highher yes, but the pleasure is much, much greater.
JD

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:21 pm

AND, hangar flying can be almost as much fun as flying. A hangar at an airport where hangar neighbors can stop in is really a lot of fun and very enjoyable. That is one of the real compromises vs a grass strip out in the country with your own hangar.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 6:06 pm

I hated to spend the bucks,but I'm glad I bought my hangar also. They were pre-selling for around $22-23K in mid-1995,by the time they were ready to move into in Jan. 1996 the price for the one that was left was about 24K,I bought mine in April 1998 for 28K,and the going rate for the last several years has been 30K. Steadily going up in value,even thought more condo hangars have been built on the field.
There are some hangars owned by guys who've never kept their own airplane in them,just rented it out from day one. These hangars don't really make money as rentals after you figure in condo fees and property tax,and don't appreciate anough to be a good investment,UNLESS you need a hangar for your airplane anyway. After my purchase investment,it costs me about $92 a month to hangar my plane,the going rental rate for these hangars at my airport is $225-250. Plus I can always get at least what I paid back out of it when I sell,and there's no shortage of people wanting to buy a hangar.Makes sense to me.

Eric

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:31 pm

FWIW, AVweb has an article on hangers this week - it's a reprint from Aviation Consumer March 2001. Food for thought....

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182440-1.html

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:02 pm

Well, I don't know whether I would feel better or not shelling out $25K for a hangar. Yes, I'd be physically more comfortable, but it is just the priciple of the issue. I think everytime I might walk in and look at it...the question would be "I paid $25K for this steel shell"? WHAT was I thinking? I know the land costs something...and the slab...but after that it is just a bunch of stamped steel with a minimal electrical system. I suppose I would feel somewhat better if the builder/seller of such a hangar were willing to sit down with me and honestly tell me how much the land cost, slab and steel actually cost. I have this idea of the $1000 toilet seat that the government buys that only really costs $5. I may be totally wrong here, but I think that hangar prices...for the most part...are wildy inflated and we, as aircraft owners have been taken for a ride and are willing to accept it. I say we, I'm not ready to get on that ride just yet! Too bad airports won't let pilots COOP together like farmers do to reduce the costs. I think a group of pilots, perhpas ten our so, could buy and erect a nice ten unit T hangar building at a fraction of the cost of what an airport commission would have a commercial builder do it for. Instead of each pilot paying $25K for a hangar, we could possibly get the cost down to $5K-$10K per bay and each of us take comfort in knowing that prices were not inflated to bolster the wallets of the builder or airport commission members. I'll be glad to pay for a hangar, but I want to make darn sure I get what I pay for...not an overinflated steel shell!

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:51 pm

Remember part of the equation of prices is supply and demand. Who would have thunk that a stock 170 would ever sell for anywhere close to $50K? Or that you would have to spend well over $50K to buy a beater(!) 180? What did it cost to build that new pickup you just paid $20 to $30K for?
The privately owned hangars at my airport ARE a co-op show--most are condominiums,a couple are corporations. Most were built by developers for immediate resale after construction,but at least one was built by the long-term owners. Go in and talk to your airport manager and/or commissioners about getting a lease on a hangar pad.I'm betting that the lease amount would be reasonable,if they go for the idea. You can then act as your own general contractor,do-it-yourself on what you can and farm out what you must. The hardest part,from what I've seen,is dealing with all the red tape--port authority,city/county building permits,state aviation dept,and the FAA--especially if the airport has recieved any state or federal funding. I didn't mind the developers of my hangar making some money since they had to jump thru all the hoops--they earned it!
Besides the hangar-flying with neighbors,building a hangar on an existing airport may have other attractions--a cafe,pilot or parts shop,mechanic or avionics shop,etc.

Eric

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:04 am

Light may be at the end of the tunnel. Although I turned up a couple of nice designs from established companies for around $7-$8K, I just found some hangars coming open at an airport down the valley a ways. Would be a 48 mile drive one way, but I can get a box hangar for $150 a month! Only bad thing is the packed gravel floor...but I can work with that...maybe installing pavers for some credit on the rent. Just goes to show you that turning over every little stone...no matter how small...can sometimes be worthwhile.

JDH · Post by **JDH** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:54 pm

John, you may want to think of laying down a tarp under the pavers. Packed gravel means very high humidity levels.

Another thing you have to look at when factorinng in costs is that most airports will want uniformity; baked enamel steel siding, this colour, with that colour on the roof; post barn design, no T-hangars, etc. Taking that into consideration, go out and figure out the cost of materials, including trusses, lumber, siding, roof, door, etc, and I bet you will find that even if you don't factor in the labor (cause you gonna put it up with your brother inlaw, right), in most cases, there is not much of a profit there. The difference if you own, versus if you rent is that any modification (little office or workbench in the corner) you put up, is yours, stays yours, etc. And if it is an hour or more drive from the house, do what my friends do, install a corner bedroom or move you Boler trailer in the corner for a weekend cottage type thing; don't laugh, once you have a hangar, it becomes your second home... JD

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:40 pm

I for one would not want to be much farther from the airport than I am now--10-15 minutes. A long drive would tend to prevent me from going to the airport when the weather was a little iffy--conversely,it'd be a shame to drive for an hour or more only to find the field socked in all day long. I wouldn't tend to make the 2 hour or more commute just to commit aviation for 45 minutes or so. The long drive would make me tend to go fly ONLY when I had a specific mission in mind,not when I just wanted to convert 5 or 6 gallons of gas into fun.

Eric

planepilot1 · Post by **planepilot1** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:56 pm

My 2 cents of comment. I am at a grass strip, with mutual friends in Fort Worth area and pay $100/mo for open T hangar with no fuel or maint. I have been here since mid 80's with rent starting @ $50/mo. I have enjoyed, but when I lived next door I would come home after work and go fly for 1/2 hr or so 2-3 times a week during good weather. Now I am 19 miles away & only go on weekends. Being close to your plane is a BIG plus! As Joe Harris pointed out having good neighbors to visit and offer suggestions/help is another big +. Guess hangars are like a lot of things cost wise, its location, location, location. For my $125 I could have a nice fully enclosed hangar on a public airport with fuel, maint, etc in smaller towns, but around here the price is $165-$300/month. Says something about living in more remote areas doesn't it!

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:26 am

Being transplanted up here from the South, I do remember the great deals to be had for just a little money. As one moves north, things just progressively get out of whack! Even though I am out in a rural area of the Shenandoah Valley....our little airport....with the $2.75/gal avgas is now charging $250 for nice T-hangars and when/if their new ones ever get built they are going to be upwards of $300/mo! $125/mo for a fully enclosed hangar...ONLY in the South...boy are you guys lucky to still be there! Nevertheless I am happy with finding a box hangar for $150. I will upgrade the floor with a vapor barrier and other goodies. Good thing is that the new owner of the airport is open to giving me credit on my rent for the upgrades I do to the hangar. AND the nice FBO/A&P guy said he would be glad to work with me and sign off all my work on the airplane...said if I keep a log of all my work that when I get around 5000 hours he will sign off on my practical experience and I will get a crack at the A&P exams. This is much improved over the previous shop that was rather cold to my working with them during annuals, etc.

Yes, I would LOVE to live near my plane....but the savings of over $100/month and getting a bigger hangar with all the fringe benefits makes the 45 minute drive quite reasonable....especially when Spring comes and I can get my MGB out on the road again!

Just to make things better, I got a call today from someone who saw one of my posters for a hangar. This makes me really laugh

He is selling his hangar...a condo T hangar on a field a few miles to my east toward the DC area...asking....ha...get this...are you sitting down? $99,000 While being only a few miles to my east, this guy and that airport environment are clearly on another planet! Some folks just don't value a dollar like us boys raised in the South. Hey, I could do one of those 10-10-220 commercials

ak2711c · Post by **ak2711c** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 6:46 am

You guys should try renting a T hangar up here in Alaska. The going rate is $600-$800 per month. To buy one is around $70,000. Maybe you hit on something there about the north.

Shawn

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Sun Jan 26, 2003 1:29 am

That sure made me feel good! I just moved my plane from Front Royal to New Market this afternoon. Was good to push my plane back into a full box hangar leasing for $125/mo. The hangar I am waiting on is the same box design, but has a concrete floor...for $150/mo. You know if I paid $700/mo for a hangar...I'd just sell my house and move in! Seriously! I started thinking about the $99,000 this fella wanted for a T hangar in Leesburg VA. I just can't see the logic. That price is two thirds what I paid for my two level cedar home on two acres of mountain top property! Some folks just live in a completely different dimension when it comes to the value of money

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Sun Jan 26, 2003 3:01 am

Aviation IS a whole 'nother dimension when it comes to what things cost! If any of us had the good sense God gave a goose,we wouldn't be tangled up with it at all!

Eric

David Laseter · Post by **David Laseter** » Sat Mar 22, 2003 1:42 pm

wa4jr wrote: You know if I paid $700/mo for a hangar...I'd just sell my house and move in! Seriously!

wa4jr, you must not be married?
I brought that brilliant idea up, when we lived in Alaska, but my wife quickly pointed out just how inexpensive $700 / month can look.
How long before you can move back down South?