170 on skis

hbcroft · Post by **hbcroft** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:25 am

Hello

Just wondering how the 170 performs on skis? I have a pretty good idea now about the performance on floats thanks to the responses received on this discussion forum. I am still flying my 7ECA and am also looking for a bigger airplane and the Cessna 170B is still on my list...

Is it a good 2 persons, full fuel and some baggage type of plane on straight skis?

Cheers from the NWT

Bruno

Fort Smith

flyer170 · Post by **flyer170** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:58 pm

Bruno..... I have a 170A with a C-145 and use Federal 2500's and a tail wheel penatration ski I have flown it two years on skis, this year doesn't look like we are going to get much snow in western Wisconsin

My experiences: My neighbor made a set of boggie wheels on a lever system for me that I use to move it where is no snow, like in and out of the hangar and to the fuel pumps or what ever. I need plenty of room to turn around and I always have to plan ahead when I'm taxing on skis. Cross winds are a challenge for me when taxing, remember no brakes to help straighten it out. Sometimes it is easier to let it just weather vane and go the other way or have your passenger get out and hold the strut back. Last year I tried to turn off at a snow covered taxiway to my right with a cross wind from the left

I taxied straight ahead past the turn off then turned into the wind did a 270 degree turn and came out pointed at the turn off

On a lake or large snow covered fields it isn't a problem just use all the room that you need. Some people keep a rope tied to the tail ski and just get out and swing it around, the tail is heavy on the 170 compared to Chief's and Cub's. Regarding take off performance it varies, in a couple of inches of light snow on ice it seems to jump right into the air. In two feet of soft snow in tall grass it takes lots of power to get going. Once it starts to float in the snow the speed picks up rapidly, I suppose it's similiar to getting on the step with floats. I haven't had the 170 in slush and sticky snow yet but I think a person would have their hands full getting it into the air with the 145 hp engine. I have flown it on skis in good snow conditions with two adults, full fuel and some baggage with no problem. My back seat weighs 32 lbs get the hint

I always wear my winter clothes and require my passengers to do the same. This is not the time of year to be stuck some where in tennis shoes. My survival kit is updated for the winter.
There are others on this forum who have much more experience in the 170 on skis then I do.
Good luck
Bob

funseventy · Post by **funseventy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:38 pm

Bruno,

I like ski flying more than anything else. But before it can be fun there are a lot of things to keep aware of. I have flown almost 500 hours on skis and my 170 is as easy and fun of any that I've flown. The 185's and Beaver's are easy to get stuck but our 170 is enjoyable. I will send you an e-mail that will ahve a picture or two of My 170 on skis. I often operate on mountain top landing areas. One picture is at 6500' Elevation. Be on the lookout. I always volunteer my airplane to people to see if its something they want to do. It can be spendy to get set up and it can be alot of work to fly on skis. But the offer is open to you.

Kelly

funseventy · Post by **funseventy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:43 pm

If you are going to operate out of a Muni it will probably be a fairly confined space. So remember the following: 1) To get out short take off in you track, if there aren't any make a set while taxiing, 2) To get in short land in the fresh snow. The drag of the ski is measured by the width of the ski, if you don't need the floatation for 5 foot deep powder than you need to look at skinnier ski. I am running Federal 2000's on mine and I love them. If you run Aero 3000 you will have more drag because the are a good 4 inches wider. There are a ton of tips that I should post here that will help people but it'd get kinda lengthy, maybe I'll post some over the next few days. Plus you could contact me personally and we could talk do's and don'ts.

Kelly

Curtis Brown · Post by **Curtis Brown** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:03 pm

Kelly,
I am in Mississippi so I may never need skis

However I would enjoying reading any post you have and I would like to see the pictures too. curt10s@bellsouth.net
Curtis

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 10:57 pm

Kelly,

Me too, I would enjoy reading the tips and seeing the pictures. The 4" we got here in Dallas one time stayed for a day or two!

funseventy · Post by **funseventy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:12 pm

Hey Joe,

When you're out flying around my dad live's in Denton. He has an apartment in his hangar, its the farthest north hangar on the airport. He's always good for some hangar flying.

I'll send send pictures to both of you please excuse the lack of paint, I'm scheduling paint this spring, I hope.

Kelly

funseventy · Post by **funseventy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:22 pm

If you taxi around like you do on wheels with the yoke back, you would not be able to groundloop with full power and full rudder. The tailwheel is an anchor that drags the airplane straight. If you use 20 degrees of flap and full elevator it will start to steer nicer. It takes a lot more power totaxi on skis and thats why you can't turn to the right very well, a lot of p-factor to overcome. But at the same time I can almost pivot on a ski going to the left. So plan you taxiing around those known facts. I was always told to not only plan your landing and taxi route before you land, but also think about parking, taxi route and take off as well. When you touch down have a good Idea how it will al work out and try your hardest to not have to move it by hand. It will make your outing more enjoyable.

Kelly

funseventy · Post by **funseventy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:33 pm

I'm sorry I just read that. For easy steering use full FORWARD elevator and it will steer easier. Also realize that when leaving your home base it is smart to take along a passenger. When you get stuck it is sometimes nice to have a pusher. That is why a Beaver has 5 pax seats, because you might need 5 pushers. When you pull in and stop the ski will get warm from the friction when you stop they wil melt the snow and then proceed to freeze in. To break them free rock the wings aggresively and kick the toe of the ski outboard several times aggresively. This normally does the trick but it might also take a pusher while you use full power and pick the tail up and down with the elevator and varying rudder inputs. Ski flying is not actually nice to the airframe especially considering not all snow is smooth and a lot of snow is hard as ice.

Its all fun, Kelly

logsdon · Post by **logsdon** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:42 am

Kelly, I'll be putting my 170 on Federal 2500s soon. Would appreciate a picture of yours by e-mail, particularly one showing the rigging.

flyer170 · Post by **flyer170** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:50 am

Kelly's right it takes a lot of work but when everything is right it is a wonderfull experience. Some of my best memories are of ski flying in my old Chief.
If I'm going to park for awhile I stop a few feet short of where I plan to park, pause for 15 to 20 seconds then move forward and stop. That seems to help lessen the icing up a little bit. I try to work a wooden block or tree limb under the skis if I'm parking for the night.
Bob

flyer170 · Post by **flyer170** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:56 am

Kelly...... Maybe I should leave the tail wheel ski off until the snow gets to deep

Your right it probably would track better. You are also right I can turn on a dime, well maybe a quarter, to the left.
I didn't consider the torque factor either:oops:
Bob

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:28 am

There's an article in the 170 Book or the SRAM book about the 80-43 prop.The guy who wrote it did a lot of ski flying and ended up buying a PA-11 when the 170 got to be too much for him to wrassle around by himself.
Kelly,you were talking about weight reduction the other day,and here you are talking about paint. What does a full paint job add to the weight? (And what is the moment of the paint job?

)

Eric

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:46 am

funseventy wrote:Hey Joe,

When you're out flying around my dad live's in Denton. He has an apartment in his hangar, its the farthest north hangar on the airport. He's always good for some hangar flying.

I'll send send pictures to both of you please excuse the lack of paint, I'm scheduling paint this spring, I hope.

Kelly

Hi Kelly,

I've been needing to land at Denton. A guy who use to base his 180 at Grand Prairie, kept it in the hangar I'm now in, and a couple of other guys have an FBO there now. I'll go up to the north end and see if I can meet your Dad. Thanks again for those GREAT pictures. That is some country.

funseventy · Post by **funseventy** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:12 pm

Eric, the rumor I hear is a 3 color paint job can weigh as much as 30 lbs. I plan on polishing about half the airplane, so I'm hoping to keep the weight down to under 20 lbs. I don't know the moment, but I plann on a re-weigh after the airplane is complete. I am also working on putting in a utility interior, so it'll be interesting to see where the weight ends up.

Amenities=Weight

Kelly