100 LL

[km74]

I have read alot of posts in all forums about people having problems with stuck valves and fouled plugs using 100 LL. Is there anyone who hasn't had problems with avgas? I've used only avgas on my 170 and on my 120 before and had no problems, but I have a limited number of flying hours on both. I am a little reluctant to use autofuel unless I have to. Any responses will be appreciated.

Ken

[N1478D]

I've been burning mostly mogas now for many months. Stopped for a short while after the stuck valve. A conversation led me to try again because I had not been using MMO with the mogas before. Have not had any problems so far after probably 80 - 100 hours since the stuck valve and I religously(sp) add the MMO to the mogas. The advice I have received from people that I trust is that I am enjoying false economy. The long term damage is higher than the short term fuel cost savings. Obviously, I am not following that advice, but have been told a 60% mogas, 40% avgas mixture would be the best for the engine when using mogas. DFW is one of the areas that has the pollution penalty. Worse ingredients are in the fuel here than out away from the metroplex. The plane runs fine, in fact, when I race George I plan on running mogas right on by him. Others that I know are also burning mogas without any known problems. Some of them have been doing it for years. Move to GPM and we'll share the costs and savings of building a fuel trailer.

[flyguy]

*****

[N1478D]

JOE AND KEN.

THERE ARE ALREADY FOUR OR FIVE TOPIC PAGESS ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. LOOK IN YOUR "SEARCH" FEATURE AND READ THE INFO THEN ADD TO THAT THREAD IF OTHER QUESTIONS ARISE. WE ALREADY HAVE SO MANY SUBJECTS DUPLICATED SO MANY TIMES THAT THERE ARE 15 PAGES TO HAVE TO GO BACK THROUGH

Now Flyguy, there you go again ! You just did exactly what you asked me not to do. Your post has nothing to do with 100LL. But, it was the only way you could communicate your thoughts. How could I have responded to Ken's request for feedback any other way? The topic you addressed has been brought up before, but you didn't go find that thread and post under it - you posted here. Because when someone reads something they want to type their thoughts while they have them, not go searching around to find a more clerical position to put them. It is a great idea to have all of our questions and responses perfectly organized, but it is very unlikely that it will turn out like that - you just proved it.

[km74]

Flyguy, did you read whatI posted? I said I already read alot of posts against using avgas. I want to here more from people who use avgas with no bad effects. As I said before if you don't want to read it then don't!! Do you have nothing better to do than complain? Not all people have read through the old posts and will not post an answer to them. Maybe new members or others who are reading this will reply to me. I don't need your complaining cluttering my post. I just want some good information which may or may not have been posted yet. Didn't your mother ever tell you if you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything?

Ken

[zero.one.victor]

I used to use avgas,when I started using cargas instead,it lowered my stall speed by 5 mph and raised my cruise speed by 5 mph. Fuel burn went down a gallon per hour,noise level in the cabin was 5 dB lower,and I got more landings out of my tires,too!
A friend just bought an A model which already had the cargas STC,but she's been running 100LL. She's already had 2 lead-fouled plugs in less than 50 hours.
I've been running probably 85-90% cargas since my overhaul 300 hours ago,no problems. At my last annual (280 SMOH),I had 80/80 in all six of my new ECI cylinders. I ran an average of 75% cargas in my old engine for about 600 hours (1700 SMOH when I overhauled it),had to put an exhaust guide in two cylinders after about 500 of those hours. Otherwise,no problems. Was the exhaust guide wear due to cargas use? Who knows..............

Eric
Eric

[wa4jr]

Easy Ken...I think Flyguy was just having some Cajun Fun and ribbin you a little. I am using 100LL this winter just because I fly less and don't want the autogas to go stale in the system. I also use 100LL on trips when I can't find autogas...and don't seem to have any problems. I do, however, use MMO at the proper amount in every tank of fuel regardless of autogas or 100LL. All that being said, I use autogas as much as I can during the warmer months. I have heard of too many folks with lead fouling problems in thier plugs, and sticking valves. I do find it strange, though, that every A&P I talk to is dead set against the use of autogas. I wonder what they are going to think when the 100LL is phased out and we are left with either Jet A or autogas? Since I am an avid user of autogas, I'd love to hear from folks who have had a serious problem with the use of fresh, properly filtered and stored autogas? I want to understand why I get ripped by every A&P guy over my use of autogas. I know the stuff stinks to high heaven, but I'll take the stink and put that saved $1 per gallon in my pocket for the overhaul fund!

[DensityDog]

Ken,
I have owned a few 170s, put over 450 hours on them using only Avgas with no lead fouling or guide problems. True, I have had to pull 3 cylinders on various 170s due to exhaust valve guide or stem wear causing the valve not to seat, but that is certainly not enough to claim the 100LL was at fault. This is more likely due to Continentals poor choice of guide material. Continental's reputation is very poor on this matter, just ask the guys running the big engines, like O470s.

I think valve guide problems have more to do with how you "fly" your engine, a topic which I won't go into here, lest we start WWIII right here on the 170 forum!

John, as for A&Ps advising against use of Mogas, all I can think is perhaps they are only concerned for your welfare, since the engine manufacturers advise against it's use, and back that advice up with refusal to honor any warranties if it is used in their engines.
I am an A&P, and I don't think there is any problem with using Mogas, as long as you test it properly and don't let it sit in your tanks for long periods. In fact if the fuel prices continue up any more then I am going to have to start using it again myself. My Cessna 180 used Mogas exclusively for 20 years with it's previous owner and it has gone over 900 hours with only 1 cylinder removal.

In the end, you are free to use the go-juice of your choice, just remember to follow Eric's Hokey Pokey! HIT IT ERIC! "..a-one and a two-a
You put your left foot in...."


Max

[zero.one.victor]

Oh yeah,I forgot about that,I guess I do it without even thinking twice. The mystery oil consecration,the hokey-pokey,and the "cargas,cargas,sis-boom-bah" mantra are MANDATORY for success with cargas use! How could I neglect to mention that?

Eric

[GAHorn]

Having quit performing the Hokey-Pokey as a child, I've only used AvGas for the last 25 years or so with absolutely no problems. (I did try mogas for a while years ago, but quit when it became problematic.) With AvGas, ...No valve problems. No spark plug fouling problems. No fuel system component problems. No fuel valves dumping mogas into the belly and down the ramp under neighboring airplanes. No fire department trucks showing up at the flight line and scowling at me.

[km74]

I think I'll keep using avgas. Thanks everyone.

Ken

[Dave Clark]

I used mogas fairly often over the last three years, 250 hours. In the process of putting the instrument panel back together I replaced the o-rings on the primer. The old ones broke very easy when I tried to take them off. Gee, nor I wonder about my fuel selector valve.....

Sure glad I no longer have to consider mogas with the 180 Lycoming.

[zero.one.victor]

Dave, I thought the O-360 Lyc was STC-cargassable using 91 or 92 octane. (gotta keep stirring the pot!)

Eric

[Dave Clark]

I've been told of people using mogas in the O-360 but truthfully I've not researched the STC availability because I've decided to stick to avgas.

Funny story: A few years ago I'm siphoning out some avgas from the 181 to use in the truck and mower when Dave Nutter came down to his 150 parked across the taxiway and started putting IN magas. We looked at each other and I said " is one of us doing something wrong here?"