KLN-88 Database Cartridge

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:23 am

Has anyone purchased a new database cartridge for the KLN-88 from Honeywell lately? WHAT IS UP with the $220 price tag on this cartridge now? Used to be $150 I am told, and this is even a stretch for a navigation unit that has a market value of $350 or so. I wrote Honeywell and gave'em both barrels on this issue. They take in the old cartridge so they do not have any manufacturing costs involved...all they do is change the data within the unit...and badabing a quick $220 for them!

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:32 am

The database cost is irrelevant to the value of the avionics it resides within. It costs the same to produce the database for the latest GPS as it does for the oldest LORAN. Individual updates are more expensive if not part of an annual subscription.

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:55 am

And the nice Honeywell person offered me a yearly database update subscription for almost $700 per year....for my $350 KLN-88. Yes, I know the type of equipment is irrelavent, but I did go with the KLN-88 to keep from throwing so much money at the GPS fad....at least for now anyway. With the cost of updates this much...it is wiser to buy the whole unit on e-bay if the database is relatively new and just save the KLN-88 as a spare. Whoever thought that the database for these receivers would be more valuable that the receiver itself. Kind of like putting the wagon in front of the horse...but then I think it is a way for Honeywell to force us away from the trusty KLN-88 and into some of their high priced GPS offerings. Nope....I'll just motor along on my 1995 database and watch out for changes as I input flight plans.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 4:14 am

To be legal for IFR the database has to be current,no? I'm not an IFR guy,I'm not even sure if the KLN-88 is an IFR approved (or approvable) GPS. For just VFR,I like my Garmin Pilot 3. I saw them offered for about $440 as a show special at the aviation show this last weekend. the Garmin 196 special price was about $880 I think. Those are pretty nice,some interesting features and a nice big screen. Of course,the small screen is what makes the little Pilot 3 so handy--it'll fit anywhere. The 196 is just enough bigger that it would be more of a challenge to mount it in an out of the way yet easily scanned location.

Eric

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 9:12 am

I just bought a Garmin 196 (it was $879 and change from
Avionics West in Santa Maria, California).

I was all excited when it showed up, and I ran out to my airplane
to see where I thought it would mount up best. It comes with
a nifty base mount, which has a quick-release + is adjustable
along the lateral axis as well as left & right. Problem is, the
glare shield area (in the 170) is so shallow, the unit won't fit
up above the instrument panel....

It also came with a fancy yoke-mount contraption, the likes of
which if I mounted it, I'd have to re-do the weight & balance
on my airplane again.... <grins>

That being said, I'll most likely use the yoke-mount thingy (easiest way out).

I've been playing with the 196 over the last few days (in the
air and on the ground) and it is a neat toy.... the 295 is even
neater (a few friends have them). If you can stand it, I'd suggest
waiting a short while, and I bet we'll see a "Garmin 296" hit
the market (196 features with a color display).

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:57 pm

Bela,I don't know if there's room for a 196,but I mounted my Pilot 3 on the windshield "windowsill" adjacent to the pilot's side ashtray. Made a neat little bracket & bolted it thru the trim piece that the ashtray fits into,with a bushing to set it at the proper tilt for viewing. Out of the way yet easily scanned. I routed the power cable down & behind the panel,to a new 1/2 amp circuit breaker in my CB sub-panel.Very tidy.

Eric

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 6:01 am

Next time I see you with your airplane, I'd like to have a look
Eric.

I ended up using the yoke mount thingy. It's not *too* bad....
but I long for a cleaner installation.

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

Post by **GAHorn** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:54 pm

zero.one.victor wrote:To be legal for IFR the database has to be current,no? I'm not an IFR guy,I'm not even sure if the KLN-88 is an IFR approved (or approvable) GPS. For just VFR,I like my Garmin Pilot 3. I saw them offered for about $440 as a show special at the aviation show this last weekend. the Garmin 196 special price was about $880 I think. Those are pretty nice,some interesting features and a nice big screen. Of course,the small screen is what makes the little Pilot 3 so handy--it'll fit anywhere. The 196 is just enough bigger that it would be more of a challenge to mount it in an out of the way yet easily scanned location.

Eric

The KLN-88 was approved for IFR, enroute, terminal, and approach. If you wish to have 50-foot accuracy instead of 300 foot accuracy, then you can buy a $6K to $15K GPS and pay the $700 per year database subscription..... But I'll just keep my $150 KLN-88 instead.

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 4:20 am

No, I'm not going to use the KLN-88 in IFR for anything other than "advisory" purposes. Going VFR however, the KLN-88 is going to make an excellent NAV radio even with the '95 database...I'll just have to make sure that each point I enter is indeed contained in the database, or else manually assign a lat/long to it. I did think about the hand held GPS units, but there again...as George puts it GPS only gives me a gain of a few feet accuracy in exchange for MANY more dollars. Once the supply of KLN-88s is gone or overpriced, I'll switch to GPS, but only a panel mounted unit as I hate the clutter of stalk mounted portable units hanging around the cockpit with their wires running around and the hassle of installing them and taking them out for every flight. And as George pointed out...some if not all IFR GPS units require that their LORAN receivers be operational. My question for George on this is what does the IFR GPS use for a LORAN antenna?

Just to let you know...Honeywell has not bothered to answer my letter concerning the $220 price of their KLN-88 cartridge. I think I caught them at their game and they will not respond.

dkalwishky · Post by **dkalwishky** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 4:42 am

I just purchased a Garmin 196 GPS and got my old Terra Loran out of my plane. The GPS mounts real nice on ym yoke and has a moving map and a ton more features than the KLN-88 has, I'm sure. Plus database updates are only $35 per time or a flat yearly rate of $295. Much much cheaper than the Loran and I'm sure a bunch more features. Now, if your using the Loran for IFR work then this is a moot point, but if your using it for VFR then why not?

JDH · Post by **JDH** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 2:11 pm

Bela and others looking to mount their hand helds.
Look at pages 434 & 435 in the latest Spruce catalogue. I got a Ram-O-Mount after seeing them at Oshkosh 5 years ago, when they first came out. They've come up with alot more models since. I mounted the base on the "shelf" the other end mounts to the GPS Map 195's craddle. The beauty of this device is that you can adjust in any axis with one hand, just by turning one big "wing-nut". The 195 is big, high and heavy and I find that despite this, where I have it mounted, being that we sit so high in our 170's, doesn't really obstruct the view. I am thinkinng of going to a 295, but will wait till after Oshkosh this year, cause I too think they may come out with a colour 196 (they already have them for marine and street use), and I will use the Ram-O-Mount to mount it then too. I flew a 185 with a 295 on the yoke and could feel its weight. JD

N170BP · Post by **N170BP** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:57 pm

Interesting... Thanks for the tip JD!

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:35 pm

My two cents worth: at $350 purchase price plus installation cost,I don't think that KLN-88 is any bargain if it's gonna be used for VFR--especially with a 7 year old database. They haven't moved too many airports since then (

) but ,at least around my area,they have changed a lot of identifiers in the last 3 years or so. Makes it harder to pick an airport off the chart then enter it into the nav unit if the database is not current.
The advertised price for a Garmin Pilot 3 is around $500,it's easily mounted out of the way,easily detached if you're worried about it getting stolen,plus it has a lot of useful features (E6B,trip log,etc).
I know which one I'd rather have.

Eric

rudymantel · Post by **rudymantel** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:05 pm

If I had a KLN-88 I'd reluctantly spring for one current database. A lot of frequencies, RSA's etc have changed in the past 5 years. But a better bet would be to buy a GPS.
I've been using my 295 yoke-mounted for the past two years and I love it ! I buy one database a year for $39 - you just download it from Jeppesen. The unit came with a serial port connection- I'd guess it's a USB on the new ones.
That 296 might be worth waiting for.
BTW, Garmin have super customer support. I have a Garmin 92 which I carry as a backup. A few weeks ago I tried to use it and found that the display had gone blank. I called Garmin to inquire about repairing it. It was almost a year and a half old and the warrannty was for a year. They told me to send it in and repaired it under warranty- no cost- and gave me the latest software update and database ! A good company to deal with. (You can always download any software udates free of charge).
Rudy

russfarris · Post by **russfarris** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:37 pm

Well, here's my solution.

My airplane came with a UPS II Morrow loran, which I wasn't too fond of. The previous owner also had mounted a Garmin 195 next to the sidewall, which I did like, except the the tangle of wires associated with most portable GPS units.

What I did was replace the loran with an Apollo GX-55 moving map GPS. It's a pin for pin replacement for the loran - just slide the old unit out, slide the new one in and change the old antenna to the GPS one; that's easy, it uses the same mounting holes. Took all of 30 minutes, not counting the paperwork. Tropic Aero took the 195 and loran in as trade-ins, which lowered the cost of the GX-55 to 1,700 bucks.

The GX-55 can be IFR certified enroute and terminal area, but I haven't bothered with that. It has a nice monochromatic display, an updatable database and has been very reliable (done two and a half years ago) And it did away with the clutter of wires, making a nice, clean installation.

Just another option for those out there with old UPS Flybuddy lorans or GPS.

Russ Farris