Early Brass fuel valves

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GAHorn
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Early Brass fuel valves

Post by GAHorn »

The recent discussion re: early brass fuel valves brings me to reveal some info I've come across.

The early valves were made by Weatherhead, (now Eaton.) Aircraft Spruce sells a version that looks very similar, unfortunately they are 1/4" fittings instead of the 3/8" fittings the early airplanes need.

A long search effort has revealed that Eaton actually still makes those types of valves. (An Eaton distributor would have to be located for the order, and the basis of approval would be up to the buyer. There was a time when this would have been referred to as a "Standard Part", and eligible for installation on that basis alone.)

See page 116 of the Eaton Products Catalog:
http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pd ... 001-E3.pdf
click to ENLARGE
click to ENLARGE
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
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An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Early Brass fuel valves

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Our valve would be the 4 way type either 6707 or 6708. Anyone know the stem height of ours?
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sfarringer
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Re: Early Brass fuel valves

Post by sfarringer »

Now you're trying to confuse me!! :?

My old fuel valve (and my IPC) call for 1/4 inch pipe thread fittings. (Figure 38, line 29, P/N AN816-6D)

I believe that we need a 3 way valve rather than a 4 way. A 4 way would have the outlet on the bottom of the valve, where we need the outlet on the front.

Also, I think both the 3 way and 4 way valves shown will only feed from one tank at a time, not both. (Several years ago I had a 6749 valve in my hand, and confirmed this.) Of course, the plug could be removed and the necessary hole could be added (but you need to do this without deforming or raising a burr on the precision surface of the plug).

The top of the stem is about .575 inch above the top of the nut on my valve.

Steve
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GAHorn
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Re: Early Brass fuel valves

Post by GAHorn »

"AN816-6D" is a 3/8" fitting.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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Re: Early Brass fuel valves

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

I took the 4 way valve to mean, OFF, LEFT, RIGHT, BOTH. A three way would be Off, Left, Right.
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GAHorn
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Re: Early Brass fuel valves

Post by GAHorn »

Our 120/140 brothers have had to deal with this problem for years. To turn a 3-way into a 4-way, they merely drill "across" to complete a "T" within the valve. Care must be taken to not create "burrs" within the delrin/brass assy. I have a copy of their research project on it, written by Neal Wright (one of their most-excellent, and prolific gurus.) While he once generously gave permission for me to post his work on our site, it might be better if I simply provided a link:
http://www.cessna120-140.org/forum/file ... ug__05.pdf
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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sfarringer
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Re: Early Brass fuel valves

Post by sfarringer »

My references show that AN816-6D is for 3/8 tube, with 1/4 inch pipe thread. :!:
If you want a fitting for 3/8 tube, with 3/8 inch pipe thread, you would use AN816-6-6D.
Or, if you want one for 3/8 tube, with 1/8 inch pipe thread, you would use AN816-2-6D.

I believe that "4-way" actually refers to a valve with 4 ports. In this case, you will find that there are 3 side ports which would be "in" ports, each of which can be connected one at a time to the fourth port which is on the bottom of the valve assembly. There is also an off position. This is not what we have.

A "3-way" valve has three ports, positioned at 90 degree intervals on the sides of the valve. In our case, the two ports which are 180 degrees opposed are the inlets, and the third port is the outlet. In our early C170 valves, the plug is cross-drilled thru, with a third hole drilled into the cross-drill, so that the plug can be positioned with all 3 ports connected (Both). The other 3 valve rotation positions will be Left tank connected to the outlet, Off (with both tanks connected together but not connected to the outlet), and Right tank connected to the outlet.

Unfortunately, the Eaton 6749 valve does not have this plug configuration. It has two holes drilled at 90 degrees which connect, but neither hole goes thru. So, this valve has Left, Off, Right, Off. As George stated, this valve can be changed to the C170 configuration by adding the cross-drill to the plug. There also will be some cutting required on the stem, to interface with the actuating shaft. This is certainly possible to accomplish, but none of Eaton's catalog valves is a drop-in replacement.

I was forced into looking into some of these details a few years ago, due to problems with my fuel valve.
I expect that I will have to deal with it again.

I believe that there is an STC for use of an Allen fuel valve in 140's, and this looks like a very high quality valve (though certainly not inexpensive).
I suspect that there are just not enough C170's with the early valve arrangement to be worth going to the trouble for anyone to get approval of an STC. Perhaps one of us will be forced into it someday.
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GAHorn
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Re: Early Brass fuel valves

Post by GAHorn »

sfarringer wrote:My references show that AN816-6D is for 3/8 tube, with 1/4 inch pipe thread. :!:
If you want a fitting for 3/8 tube, with 3/8 inch pipe thread, you would use AN816-6-6D.
Or, if you want one for 3/8 tube, with 1/8 inch pipe thread, you would use AN816-2-6D.....
THANKS, Steve, for the clarification! (But while confirming your info, I noticed you made an inadvertent error: A 3/8 tube with a 1/8 pipe thread would be AN816-6-2D.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons. ;)
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sfarringer
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Re: Early Brass fuel valves

Post by sfarringer »

gahorn wrote:THANKS, Steve, for the clarification! (But while confirming your info, I noticed you made an inadvertent error: A 3/8 tube with a 1/8 pipe thread would be AN816-6-2D.)
OOPS! :oops:
Ragwing S/N 18073
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