climb prop question
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Re: climb prop question
Thanks guys. That is some good information. I'm going to have to save this for future reference.
I hesitate to keep showing my ignorance but....
How are you guys getting approval for the 80 inch prop on a land plane? Everything I see about the 80 inch prop says "seaplane". I haven't seen a copy of the Kenmore STC. Does it have a provision for land planes? Is there another STC that approves it? Or is this being done on a field approvals? Don't ask, don't tell?
Thanks for all the help. I've always been in the pilot end of this business. I've learned a lot about the mechanic end lately.
I've got about a week to find an overhauled prop, which is proving more difficult that I had expected. I do have a lead on a used 7654 "as removed" and the price is right. I might take a chance and go with that or just bite the bullet and order a new one.
K
I hesitate to keep showing my ignorance but....
How are you guys getting approval for the 80 inch prop on a land plane? Everything I see about the 80 inch prop says "seaplane". I haven't seen a copy of the Kenmore STC. Does it have a provision for land planes? Is there another STC that approves it? Or is this being done on a field approvals? Don't ask, don't tell?
Thanks for all the help. I've always been in the pilot end of this business. I've learned a lot about the mechanic end lately.
I've got about a week to find an overhauled prop, which is proving more difficult that I had expected. I do have a lead on a used 7654 "as removed" and the price is right. I might take a chance and go with that or just bite the bullet and order a new one.
K
53 170B
Re: climb prop question
Try Air Salvage of Dallas and talk to "Lueke" (Lucky) . He had a EM7653 on his wall last time I looked and it was in excellent condition for about $1200 I think.
The certification (CAR) for prop-length requires 7-9" of tip-to-ground clearance in the takeoff condition (tailwheel - up) with the landing gear deflected for 1.5 G's. If you have taller gear legs (i.e. 180 gear) it will provide some additional perhaps.
The certification (CAR) for prop-length requires 7-9" of tip-to-ground clearance in the takeoff condition (tailwheel - up) with the landing gear deflected for 1.5 G's. If you have taller gear legs (i.e. 180 gear) it will provide some additional perhaps.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: climb prop question
The Kenmore Air Harbor STC (SA111NW) covers 170A and 170B land and sea planes with O-300A and O-300B engines. Limitations are 80" maximum and 78.4" minimum diameters, prop IA175DM, Spinner Cessna Drawing # 0550162
Re: climb prop question
G'day All,
I have been quite busy here with a record winter spray season leading into a big summer season. What a nice relief from the drought we have had. I went from not turning a blade in May, 25hrs ferry time in June (thats a whole other storey), had most of July off recovering from the ferry job and had a baby boy. Then in August things started to pick up.... I have logged over 900hrs since the start of August. (A 10hr day in the log book typically involves about 15hrs in the cockpit!) Although I have not contributed to the forum for a while I have one of these fancy new phones with internet and have been following the forum daily.
Back to the subject - I just thought I'd add my experience...
I just swapped the DM7653 prop on HVS for an MDM7653 (from what I've read this would be the same profile as the EM7653). The MDM came with the plane when I bought it and has only 350hrs since new on it. I was curious as to why anyone would change to a less efficient model.
I ran a trial with both props. I ran each trial 3 times to get an average result. To be fair it was hot and bumpy and not ideal for repeating each criteria but this was the only time I had available for this. This is an average of what I found...
DM7653...
OAT 31'C
P Alt - 700'
T/O RPM - 2270
T/O DIST - 248m
DIST TO TREE TOP (APPROX 40FT) - 638m
CLIMB RPM @76KTS - 2420
R.O.C @76KTS - 400FPM
CRUISE SPD 2500RPM 1700FT - 100KTS
MDM7653
OAT 31'C
P ALT - 700
T/O RPM - 2320
T/O DIST - 226m
DIST TO TREE TOP - 570m
CLIMB RPM @ 76KTS 2470
R.O.C @76KTS - 550FPM
CRUISE 2500RPM 1700FT - 100KTS
The numbers are more for comparison than absolute. I know I can get a few more knots for example in the cruise but I was as careful as I could be to fly in the same manner each run. Needless to say, the MDM will be staying on.
So if anyone is looking for a bit better take off and climb performance without giving up speed this might be the answer. It would be interesting to see how it would go pitched to 52".
I have been quite busy here with a record winter spray season leading into a big summer season. What a nice relief from the drought we have had. I went from not turning a blade in May, 25hrs ferry time in June (thats a whole other storey), had most of July off recovering from the ferry job and had a baby boy. Then in August things started to pick up.... I have logged over 900hrs since the start of August. (A 10hr day in the log book typically involves about 15hrs in the cockpit!) Although I have not contributed to the forum for a while I have one of these fancy new phones with internet and have been following the forum daily.
Back to the subject - I just thought I'd add my experience...
I just swapped the DM7653 prop on HVS for an MDM7653 (from what I've read this would be the same profile as the EM7653). The MDM came with the plane when I bought it and has only 350hrs since new on it. I was curious as to why anyone would change to a less efficient model.
I ran a trial with both props. I ran each trial 3 times to get an average result. To be fair it was hot and bumpy and not ideal for repeating each criteria but this was the only time I had available for this. This is an average of what I found...
DM7653...
OAT 31'C
P Alt - 700'
T/O RPM - 2270
T/O DIST - 248m
DIST TO TREE TOP (APPROX 40FT) - 638m
CLIMB RPM @76KTS - 2420
R.O.C @76KTS - 400FPM
CRUISE SPD 2500RPM 1700FT - 100KTS
MDM7653
OAT 31'C
P ALT - 700
T/O RPM - 2320
T/O DIST - 226m
DIST TO TREE TOP - 570m
CLIMB RPM @ 76KTS 2470
R.O.C @76KTS - 550FPM
CRUISE 2500RPM 1700FT - 100KTS
The numbers are more for comparison than absolute. I know I can get a few more knots for example in the cruise but I was as careful as I could be to fly in the same manner each run. Needless to say, the MDM will be staying on.
So if anyone is looking for a bit better take off and climb performance without giving up speed this might be the answer. It would be interesting to see how it would go pitched to 52".
Work : AT502B
Play : '51C170A
Play : '51C170A
Re: climb prop question
Don't know about all the weird anatomy of various animals "Down Under" ...but "UP HERE".... if a guy had a baby boy he'd need a LOT MORE THAN ONE MONTH off to recover!oz502man wrote:..., had most of July off recovering from the ferry job and had a baby boy. ....
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: climb prop question
What can I say George - I heal quicklygahorn wrote:Don't know about all the weird anatomy of various animals "Down Under" ...but "UP HERE".... if a guy had a baby boy he'd need a LOT MORE THAN ONE MONTH off to recover!oz502man wrote:..., had most of July off recovering from the ferry job and had a baby boy. ....
Work : AT502B
Play : '51C170A
Play : '51C170A
- wldlndfirefghtr
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:16 pm
Re: climb prop question
Hello All,
Trying to educate myself as I've searched through as many posts on 8042 climb props and O300D. Either I don't quite understand or still not quite sure, so I'd thought I'd ask: is a 8042 prop legal or able to be on an O300D?
Thanks!
Trying to educate myself as I've searched through as many posts on 8042 climb props and O300D. Either I don't quite understand or still not quite sure, so I'd thought I'd ask: is a 8042 prop legal or able to be on an O300D?
Thanks!
'56 170B N3526D
Re: climb prop question
There is no STC to put an 8042 prop on an O-300D.
The STC for the 80 inch prop covers the 8 bolt prop and crank. The O-300D has a six bolt crank.
You could probably get a field approval for it but using (after buying) the STC tho.
I'd check with your FSDO before spending any money.
What pitch are you running now? I flattened mine to 51" and it does OK.
The STC for the 80 inch prop covers the 8 bolt prop and crank. The O-300D has a six bolt crank.
You could probably get a field approval for it but using (after buying) the STC tho.
I'd check with your FSDO before spending any money.
What pitch are you running now? I flattened mine to 51" and it does OK.
Re: climb prop question
Hi
I asked the same question, and found the answer through the McCauley website, there is a PDF which has all the STCs holders.
In it I found the STC holder is The 170association !!!!!. It is included in the STC for the O-300D in the 170.
The 1A175SFC 80/40 is listed. There are several STCs for the 80/42 ,on 170s with the o-300D, but both ones I found are for
specific N number/ serial aircraft.
The prop for the O300C or D engine is the 1A175SFC 80/40 series.
I put the 1A175SFC 80/40 prop on my 170 for the ski season, and wow !! It is like a new plane !!!
It does 90 mph with skis but takes off in about 1/2 the distance. ( Hydraulic wheel skis )
John
I asked the same question, and found the answer through the McCauley website, there is a PDF which has all the STCs holders.
In it I found the STC holder is The 170association !!!!!. It is included in the STC for the O-300D in the 170.
The 1A175SFC 80/40 is listed. There are several STCs for the 80/42 ,on 170s with the o-300D, but both ones I found are for
specific N number/ serial aircraft.
The prop for the O300C or D engine is the 1A175SFC 80/40 series.
I put the 1A175SFC 80/40 prop on my 170 for the ski season, and wow !! It is like a new plane !!!
It does 90 mph with skis but takes off in about 1/2 the distance. ( Hydraulic wheel skis )
John
CF-HER
52 170B 20292
52 170B 20292
Re: climb prop question
If it's for a specific N number, it's a field approval (One time STC).
Do you have a link to that PDF?
Do you have a link to that PDF?
- wldlndfirefghtr
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:16 pm
Re: climb prop question
Bagarre,
Currently has a McCauley IC172 EM7653.
John, so a general cover all STC for the O300D would be a 80/40 prop, but to get the 80/42 would need to do a one time field approval?
How does the 6 bolt vs 8 bolt come into play?
Currently has a McCauley IC172 EM7653.
John, so a general cover all STC for the O300D would be a 80/40 prop, but to get the 80/42 would need to do a one time field approval?
How does the 6 bolt vs 8 bolt come into play?
'56 170B N3526D
Re: climb prop question
That's the only STC that I know of to put an 80 inch prop on a Cessna 170 Land plane.53B wrote:Hi,
The Kenmore STC does not cover the six bolt propellers. It only covers the 1A175DM propeller. I just installed a 1A175DM8042 propeller on my taildragger 172 and the speed decreased 15 mph. The climb rate increased 300 fpm.
Hope this helps!
Since the STC calls out the 1A175DM propeller, which is an eight bolt patter, you can't install it on the O-300D. The O-300D uses six bolts for the prop.
So, you need a different propeller and that propeller wont be covered under Kenmore's STC.
Another idea is to pitch your current prop down to 51 inches and see if that's enough to satisfy you. much cheaper.
- wldlndfirefghtr
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:16 pm
Re: climb prop question
Bagarre,
That's how I saw it and thought, that the 80/42 was an eight bolt prop.
John, so you were able to put a six bolt 80/40 on your 170?? Is that how I am reading your post.
Appreciate the clarification and confirmation., thus far.
That's how I saw it and thought, that the 80/42 was an eight bolt prop.
John, so you were able to put a six bolt 80/40 on your 170?? Is that how I am reading your post.
Appreciate the clarification and confirmation., thus far.
'56 170B N3526D
Re: climb prop question
Hi
Go to http://www.mccauley.textron.com/MAG.pdf to down load the PDF, on page #413 , on line # 8
you will see that the 6 bolt prop is listed, ( 1A175SFC 80/40 ) for the 170B with the O-300D.
The STC # is SA7441SW owned by the 170 Association.
if the link does not work go the McCauley Propeller website, click on, products, select STC guide,
then down load the McCauley Application Guide , read the 640 pages,.... or just go to page # 413.
There you will see the STCs all listed.
I saw some 82 inch props on 170s.
Go to http://www.mccauley.textron.com/MAG.pdf to down load the PDF, on page #413 , on line # 8
you will see that the 6 bolt prop is listed, ( 1A175SFC 80/40 ) for the 170B with the O-300D.
The STC # is SA7441SW owned by the 170 Association.
if the link does not work go the McCauley Propeller website, click on, products, select STC guide,
then down load the McCauley Application Guide , read the 640 pages,.... or just go to page # 413.
There you will see the STCs all listed.
I saw some 82 inch props on 170s.
CF-HER
52 170B 20292
52 170B 20292
Re: climb prop question
STC SA7441SW is to install the O-300D and other six bolt crank O-300's (I don't know them all) onto the 170.
The STC does mention the 80" prop - for a seaplane.
I don't believe SA7441SW allows you to install the 80" prop on a land plane.
The STC does mention the 80" prop - for a seaplane.
I don't believe SA7441SW allows you to install the 80" prop on a land plane.