35hours and ECI Nickel problems

[Bikini]

Hey guys,
a year ago, I put 6 new ECI Nickel cylinders on my 170 0-300D. Annual inspection the other day and #3 compression at 40 and the Nickel bore is coming apart. 5 and 6 show discoloration that my A/P thinks might be a sign. Havent pulled 1/2/4 yet. ECI will replace them under warranty. They were all part of the SAME BATCH. What do you think? Should I replace with Nickel again, or get 6 new steel?

Bill Manning
High Point, NC
N3115B

putting new EI engine monitor on this time as well. I know.......I'm paranoid now. But if it hadn't been for the annual, I might've had a engine failure. They are only 14 months old.

[hilltop170]

I have about 200 hours on a set of ECI nickel-carbide cylinders installed in 2006. I have had zero concerns with the cylinders. I think any cylinder manufacturer can have bad batches which show up later. Continental and Lycoming have had their problems along the way as well. I would still use ECI because they have had a good reputation and have features I prefer that the others don't.

It depends on how you intend to fly the engine. If it will sit for periods of time like mine does, the nickel-carbide offers a measure of corrosion protection. If the plane will fly regularly, we know steel cylinders work just fine.

The EI engine monitor is money well spent. If you are buying the UBG-16, if any cylinder has a problem, you will most likely be able to see it and know exactly which cylinder to look at first.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Your are not the only one with cylinder issues though I can not say the others are ECI nickel-carbide cylinders. Ron Magos had to rebuild his engine at about 100 hours and Steve Grimsley last I heard at convention was seeing issues with his new cylinders.

[GAHorn]

Yes, Ron and Steve have had trouble with ECI cyls ...and John Hess is also undergoing problems with one of his ECI cyls....which they have claimed "operator error" and refused to warranty. (Despite the fact that all 5 of the other cyls from the same batch on the same engine have not suffered from "operator error".) Go figure.

[n3833v]

My cylinders are steel because I didn't want any unusual metals in my cylinders due to my experience with truck engines. Yes I do have questions in my mind but as anyone knows, things happen. I did purchase another ECI Titan to match the rest. I will now get the engine together and go fly again.

John

[Bikini]

I am having all 6 pulled and sent back. they'd
Better not say operator error. 35 hours and the bore
On #3 is coming off. I never spend more than 5 min
On the ground and just lean till peak. How else
Could I hurt it?

[Bikini]

Nickel cylinder, i found out will be covered under warranty. She said that on my no 3, the nickel was, in fact, coming off. enough.

I'm going to suck up the $900 and going back to steel. They are sending 6 new steel. I, at least, will not be worrying all the time whether its shedding into my oil. Call me chicken.

Bill

[GAHorn]

I think you're making a wise choice.

While new technology is sometimes "breakthrough" success.... I can't help but wonder if in some cases it isn't merely "marketing". (Sort of like the new wave of "designer bullets" ammunition-makers seem to be putting out these days....i.e., we know a copper-nickle-clad lead slug sent at 2200 fps will kill deer effectively. But they seem intent on convincing us that we need bullets with plastic-inserts in the nose, black-Teflon powder-coated, and with nickle-plated cases ignited with chromed primers, and packaged in a camoflauge-colored box illustrated with Zombies, priced 50% more.)

The recent spate of coatings on cylinder walls were efforts to come up with a fool-proof breakin process for those who won't listen to old-timers who told them to run 'em hard-and-fast with non-AD mineral oil. The noobies to the game wanted assurances they could buy AD multi-grade oil and, either inadvertently (usually for lack-of-time) or by choice (laziness), violate every known method of proper break-in and still get a reasonable outcome of their new cylinders.
It makes no difference the majority of owners who go to the expense of new cylinders will in-fact meticulously nurture those things through the process just as worried ...no, probably MORE worried....than they would have if they'd simply bought a more common/plain product. And when those new technology magic coatings don't work....what then?

Sometimes the new-coating advocates are merely looking for a way to keep the insides from rusting because the KNOW they'll not be flying 300 hours each year and they're looking for extra protection against rust from inactivity.
But cylinder walls are not the only things in there that suffer from inactivity and rust, and the cylinder coatings don't help THEM. Besides, there's other ways to protect against internal rust which will.

While there are situations in this industry where a batch has had too-much/too-little nitride applied...or an occasional "soft" temper.... It's pretty much an axiom that new, first-run, steel cylinders do exactly what they are supposed to do, with the only drawback being they'll rust if not flown regularly. Or... STORED PROPERLY.
But even if they rust a little,...in almost all cases they'll still run to TBO if not otherwise abused....and they always break-in with simple, well-established techniques. (I'll never get over the twin IO-470s in the Baron I bought which had been sitting for ten years tied-down outside in New Smyrna Beach, Florida in the rain and seacoast conditions. Those steel cylinders were so rusted above the top ring I was CERTAIN the TCM Field Rep was going to insist on a rebuild before further flight! Instead,...he said "RUN "EM!" I did for five-years, then sold the airplane and now, another twelve years passed, the owners has those same engines and cylinders still pulling that bird around the sky with his family on-board only about 50 hours a year with no problems and no oil consumption to complain of.)

If I'm buying used, overhauled cylinders that have been run more than once (which I'll almost never be caught doing) I'll probably buy well-known channel-chrome.
But for my personal choice, it will be NEW cylinders. And if NEW cylinders are available, I don't need catchy, new, fashionable whiz-bang, trick-manufacturing techniques. I want standard, old-technology, dependable, ORIGINAL steel because I KNOW what they will do.

But that's just me.

Keep us posted on your progress, Bill,.. OK?

[n3833v]

Well, I have over 5.5 hrs and everything seems to be fine. I always have anticipation for the first hours of flying. Now I will be able to go to Bill's FlyIn.

John

[Bikini]

Puttin on 6 new steels. No more nickel worry for me

Bill

[N2255D]

Bill, Just got back from Pik-N-Pig. Let me know when you want to meet somewhere.

[Bikini]

Ok. Thx walt