Crank and Cam failure

[krines]

Help, Was having a major overhaul and both my crank and cam failed their inspections. They must be replaced. Where do I find replacements. Steve

[GAHorn]

Cams are easy.
Crank.... WHICH crank? (Which exact engine model do you have?)

If it 's an early 8-bolt.... suggest converting to a later 6-bolt (O-300-C or D) and get another prop.

[krines]

George, My engine is C145-2 serial 3638-d-8-2. It is an 8 bolt flange. How do I procede. Steve

[krines]

George, This was a prop strike so the prop must be replaced. Steve

[blueldr]

As a lot of you guys well know, a Coninental IO-360 crankshaft can be used as a replacement in a Continental O-300 engine. If an IO-360 engine containing an "Air Melt" crank is split for any reason, the crank MUST be replaced with a VAR crank. Is there any reason that an otherwise serviceable air melt IO-360 crank could not be used in an O-300 engine? The AD on the airmelt crank is, I believe, only applicable to the IO-360. There doesn't seem to be any other use for it. I've been told that the same thing applies to an air melt crank in an IO-520. The crank can be used in an O-470 or IO-470 for the same reason. TRUE???
I would bet that TCM makes every effort to destroy air melt cranks if that reasoning is true. It might be pretty hard to find an air melt IO-360 crank anyway.
The O-300 core engine I have for sale in the Trademart forum has an eight bolt crank. I've been thinking of parting out that engine anyway since I haven't had much interest from buyers.

[N2255D]

I've been thinking of parting out that engine anyway since I haven't had much interest from buyers.

You won't get any interest until you part out the first major part

[krines]

George oh George where art thou. Can I take a refurbished 0-300 D and simply install it on my plane without an STC. I have a 51 A model
Steve

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Steve, I have no idea where George is but I can tell you, you can not legally install a 0-300 D on any 170 model without an STC or another form of approval.

The good news if you didn't know Steve, is that our association owns the STC you would need and it sells that STC to members at an extremely reasonable rate. Actually we will sell it to anyone at an extremely reasonable rate but members pay half as much as non-members.

[krines]

Bruce oh Bruce oh thank thee. It has been 4 weeks since I have flown last. If I do not fly my 170 soon I shall go crazy. My prop strike has been more of a problem than I could have imagined. With a high time engine I think it will be better to replace than OH. Depends what I can find for a replacement. Thanks Steve

[GAHorn]

You guys are waaaay too happy with each other.....

Steve, why do you want a O-300-D? Are you aware you'll also need a different prop and spinner? That can add quite a few bucks to your project, you know. (Unless you have a FW-FWD situation that's priced-right.)

Then there's the matter of vacuum system.... Many folks seem to be enamored of vacuum pumps despite their lousy reputations of failure-rates. Even if I had a cheap D-model engine available, (and in-fact, I DO have a 6-bolt O-300-C which is essentially the same engine) I'd still retain a venturi system on my own 170....so for me, that is no reason to switch to the D engine. (The primary attraction of a C or D engine, in my view, is it's later crankshaft for which it is easier to find replacements. On the other hand, if a crankshaft is good on the original C145 or O-300-A... there's no reason to change engines ...unless you want that lousy, failure-prone and expensive vacuum pump.)
But... at least when it comes to pickup-trucks.....I"m also a Ford-man....

[bagarre]

You also get the right angle starter with the O-300-D...which isn't an improvement as it is a work around for the vacuum pump.

...and you can run a 35amp alternator. Which, for me is 20amps more than I'll ever use.

[KG]

You guys are waaaay too happy with each other.....

Steve, why do you want a O-300-D? Are you aware you'll also need a different prop and spinner? That can add quite a few bucks to your project, you know. (Unless you have a FW-FWD situation that's priced-right.)

Then there's the matter of vacuum system.... Many folks seem to be enamored of vacuum pumps despite their lousy reputations of failure-rates. Even if I had a cheap D-model engine available, (and in-fact, I DO have a 6-bolt O-300-C which is essentially the same engine) I'd still retain a venturi system on my own 170....so for me, that is no reason to switch to the D engine. (The primary attraction of a C or D engine, in my view, is it's later crankshaft for which it is easier to find replacements. On the other hand, if a crankshaft is good on the original C145 or O-300-A... there's no reason to change engines ...unless you want that lousy, failure-prone and expensive vacuum pump.)

George speaketh the truth. I replaced my engine with an O-300D, primarily because I had one sitting on the shelf that I had purchased right. I was caught a little off guard at the price of a spinner and back plates. I found some of the parts at salvage yards but even then the whole assembly was over 1K bucks. I found a used prop that I bought "as removed" at a good price. I knew I was taking a chance but it has turned out to be a good prop. Could have just as easily been a bad one though. A new prop was upwards of $3500 and one place quoted me over 4K.

I also put the vacuum pump on the shelf and left my venturi system in place. It is trouble free and I avoid clouds anyway. All my friends however, like George says, are enamored with vacuum pumps and tell me how much better off I would be if I took those "horns" off the side of the airplane. The only advantage I can see for doing that would be a little less drag so maybe I would go a little faster. I've convinced myself that it would not be worth the expense of removing the venturi system and plumbing in the pump. I'm happy with that decision.

So, even though I'm happy with my engine choice, I would say find out the cost of the accessories before you make the commitment. It does run the price up a bit more than I expected.

[GAHorn]

You also get the right angle starter with the O-300-D...which isn't an improvement as it is a work around for the vacuum pump.

...and you can run a 35amp alternator. Which, for me is 20amps more than I'll ever use.

You can run the 35 amp generator with the early engine also, if you have a dampered crank. ("D" in the engine serial number stands for Dampered Crank.)

[...I also put the vacuum pump on the shelf and left my venturi system in place. It is trouble free and I avoid clouds anyway. All my friends however, like George says, are enamored with vacuum pumps and tell me how much better off I would be if I took those "horns" off the side of the airplane. The only advantage I can see for doing that would be a little less drag so maybe I would go a little faster. I've convinced myself that it would not be worth the expense of removing the venturi system and plumbing in the pump. I'm happy with that decision.....

I cannot believe the venturiis actually contribute any measureable drag.

I fly my airplane "light" IFR. The only reason a vacuum pump might be an advantage is if one does ZERO-ZERO visability take-offs regularly. Can't imagine any of our guys are that stoopid in a single-engined airplane.
But in any case, my gyros are fully spooled-up/operational at 300-500 feet after takeoff. I don't take off single-engine in IFR less than that.
The other oft-quoted reason for switching from venturiis to pump is fear of icing.... If you are in icing conditions in this airplane...the type of vacuum system you have is the LEAST of your worries!
Venturiis: Free vacuum with no moving parts, and which always works.

[krines]

I agree with you guys on the vacum pump, my whole intention was an engine that I could find parts for. Since my last post I have located a yellow tagged crank or two for the 145 for 8000 or 10000 smackers. This was a prop strike and a new prop is in the works. So George if I where to install an 0-300 crank is there an STC, can I use the same cam and other assorted parts connected to the crank or will those all change as well ? Steve

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Steve,

All the parts with a few exceptions are the same for all models of C-145 or 0-300. The biggest difference between the C-145/0-300A or B and the 0-300-C, D and E is the crank on the later is a 6 bolt crank verses the 8 bolt in the earlier. Of course the D and E also have an angle starter and those parts are different.

There are ways to install a later C, D or E six bolt crank in a C-145/0-300 A/B and still call your engine what ever model it was. Or you can in effect change what your engine was to a C or D depending on if you also change the starter. If you don't change the model of your engine you don't need and STC to reinstall it. If you change your engine model you need our STC to install it.

Now granted, not all IA's agree that all of the ways to change engine models or use newer cranks in older models is still available for use so you would want to discuss this with your IA before setting on a plan.