Cessna Seat Stop Advisory

[MoonlightVFR]

Over 20 years ago I remember a pilot complaining about a product sold to pilots that supposedly fixed the Cessna seat stop situation.

It was an aluminum extrusion that fit on the seat rails and had a screw that clamped on top of the rail!. Worked reasonably well in locking out movement. That is if you REALLY tighten the screw down.


A few objections were raised about the product. In tightening down the screw a circular cut mark was imprinted into the top of the rail. You may see the evidence from time to time in Cessnas.

Every time you used the device you made circular cut top of rail. Did not inspire confidence.

One pilot dubious of the product even developed his own back up system. In addition to the extrusion clamp he would take medium size Vise Grips and clamp them on to the SIDES of the seat rail. Both seats. Double locked!

Don't duplicate these outmoded attempts

The little known original design flaws are still with us. Right near your FEET they are,original parking brake and insufficiently designed seat rail locks.

Vigilant product education is a must.

Stay Safe


Regards

[Ryan Smith]

I had my first "experience" with a seat sliding on July 4.

Back in February, the guy that's the primary instructor in 56D took my wife and I flying for about an hour in 56D where he let me fly left seat so I could build some night time. Because of my lack of proficiency with wheel landings after not having flown in nearly six years, I elected to perform a three point landing. No big deal, landing was uneventful, but he was giving me some of his thoughts on landings at a shorter, rural strip at night that provided for more options (less flap, wheel landings; basically anything that would allow one to transition into a go around if necessary).

After giving some dual to Zenda in the 170 earlier in the day on July 4, I asked Dave if I could ride along with him the next time he needed to do his night currency in the 170...provided he didn't allow it to expire before. I simply wanted to observe. 56D has a secondary seat stop on the pilot's side, but I suppose Dave didn't engage it against the roller block because as we were about 50 feet in the air, he announced that his seat had slipped. It only went back an inch or so and didn't affect his control of the airplane, but that was eye opening. In 30 years of flying and flying in that airplane, that's the first time I've ever seen or heard of a seat slipping. To be fair, the rails are due to be replaced.

Incidentally, when Dave and I were putting the airplane away, he mentioned that the only engine failure he has ever had at night was in a 170 in Charleston, SC in 1969 (I think). The result of the engine failure was the generation of the AD which required a vented fuel cap.

[Ryan Smith]

Those stops look nice, Arash. The one in 56D is, I believe, a SAFE-T-STOP. The thumb screw on the top can be tricky to wrench down tight enough.

After having flown with the Cessna inertia reel seat stops in the Hawk XP that I fly, I'm not a fan. It seems as though they severely limit the amount of travel the seat can go back...so I have a hard time squeezing my legs in and out of the tiny space between the front of the seat and the door frame.

[c170b53]

It's free in Canada, just bring your Reg papers to prove your plane and model. I'm surprised the reel limits seat travel, didn't on mine.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I 100% know my seat won't slide back if the seat pin engagement lets go.

So Arash, you guarantee that 100% of the time you will set the seat stop? Yes I'll bet you are pretty good at it but 100% is a perfect score, and well, I know I couldn't get a perfect score setting a seat stop.

I've said it before. The seat stops look hooky when they are new and you are inspecting and critiquing their appearance and thus performance.

But I've got to tell you I've had ZERO issues with it. None. I have never had to adjust it. It just works. It has never failed a test. And I'm 100% sure it will have a better record of engaging should a seat pin let loose than me remembering to set a seat stop to do the same.

And mine does not restrict the rearward travel of the seat on the rails.

This is the way I figured it. What did I have to loose having them installed. I had an excuse to fly my plane to a shop. Watch then install the stop. And it didn't cost me a thing other than my flying time and 2 hours at the shop. If I decided I didn't like it I could uninstall it within about 15 minutes and the only evidence would be the nut plate installed in the floor. I'd at least own the stop should it ever become required or the next owner want it.

But guess what. It's still installed. It still works fine. But no I haven't forgotten it is there. I think about it at every take off. I think how much more secure I feel and though still a habit, sometimes I don't use my throttle hand to hold on to the dash hand hold after applying full throttle. Holding on was my was my previous, now obsolete secondary seat stop.

[170C]

That seat stop on the Hawk XP isn't working properly. My unit lets my seat go all the way back and that one should also. I have a couple of the red seat stops with the thumb screws I used prior to Cessnas unit becoming available They are a hassle to use and being RED they are also slow to set & undo

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

it's not 0%, right?

No it is not %100. What is. You can easily check it every preflight. With the seat pin in any hole grab the belt any where convenient and pull. If it moves it is out of adjustment and not working. It the ratchet catches it's working.

Or at least that time but what about the next is what you could say. And your right.

We pick the level that makes us happy. Might I suggest you have the Cessna secondary seat stop installed just in the off chance you forget to check the Aerostops.

I've seen very competent pilots think they checked gear down, gust locks off and the list goes on.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Arash, you and I agree, any seat stop is better than none.

Let me put to rest once and for all. The secondary seat stop does not limit the rearward travel of the seat. At least the normal rearward travel. If you where use to rolling your seat off the back of the track, yes then it would limit it.

Yes to remove your seat besides what ever else you already have to do to remove the seat, with the secondary seat stop you now have to get a 3/8th in socket and spin out one AN-3 bolt. That is it. It takes seconds. It is the first step to removing the seat.

[DaveF]

The new reel-type stop works perfectly for me. I've never had to touch it and it stops the seat from moving in about a quarter of an inch. For me the best part is that it works all by itself. I've had the manual kind and I sometimes forget to set them and they're always annoying when getting out of the airplane.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Listen, as Arash has said, it is a choice. And I respect that. I don't mean to go on about his choice.

I'd rather I not need a secondary seat stop at all no matter what it is. And this Rube Goldberg thing sure looks like trouble. That was my reaction to it in the beginning.

To be honest the ONLY reason I had it installed was IT IS FREE. I figured I couldn't lose. It was not required. If I didn't like it I sure as heck could uninstall it and put it on the shelf for the next owner.

But as reported by many who have it, it has been zero trouble.

Yes, I'm slightly irritated when I look at it because I can't believe Cessna, 60 years ago, didn't have the foresight to build an infallible, adjustable seat. And this safety backup device is also not infallible. But it truley is a whole lot better than it's appearance and impression might give you.

It's a tuff life having to fly my 60 year old plane.

[DaveF]

I wouldn't criticize Arash's choice. More likely I'd take advice from him!

Just saying that the seat stop works for me as a safety device. I don't like losing the space under my seat, and I generally hate the whole Cessna seat attach system. Scraping a steel pin on an aluminum rail is a terrible design. I wish I could press steel inserts into the lock holes. Then I'd never have to replace another seat track.

[daedaluscan]

I am with Arash on this one. When I bought DRG the Cessna reel system was not functional - the ratchet did not engage. i took it apart and was not impressed with the tiny little plastic parts that engage the ratchet. I sent it in for repair to the manufacturer (about $200 with freight) and my AME reinstalled it. Lasted about ten flights before it stripped again.

I have the Aerostops and think they are well made, solid and do not damage the rail. Yes I have forgotten to set them, but rarely. I also brief passengers that once the seat is set they don't move it in flight, and how to release the Aerostop in the event of an emergency.

YMMV. Just my personal choice.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

When does that grace period end again? Did I just jinx myself?

December 31, 2016 is the deadline as of the last revision to the SB.

[GAHorn]

One of the hazards of backup systems is the human tendency to accept reduced vigilance on primary systems because the backup will "always" be there. This is a human trait that we all suffer.

The personal choice I've made is to absolutely keep my original seat tracks in excellent working order, and to absolutely, EVERY TIME lock my seat properly before flight and each/every time it is re-located in flight.

My "secondary" stop is the one provided by Cessna.... another device known as a "bushing, seat stop", and then ...another device also provided by Cessna on subsequent aircraft and often considered "required equipment" by inspectors known colloquially as "seat stop/strap" which is installed upon the track, aft of the rear seat roller. This seat-stop/strap should be installed sufficiently forward to DELIBERATELY PREVENT full-aft movement of the pilot seat.
Even should my normal seat latch-pin become disengaged, the pilot seat will not slide sufficiently far aft to prevent full control of the aircraft. YES...that does prevent full aft movement of the seat... but that is it's PURPOSE. (The reel-type secondary stop which prevents regular full-aft movement would not be any different in that regard.)

In the final analysis, ... the important thing is to MAINTAIN VIGILENCE with regard to USE and MAINTENANCE of the original seat tracks and locking devices.

ALL secondary seat stops are only "Band-Aids", much like fire extinguishers and parachutes. They must never be allowed to adversely influence CONSTANT VIGILENCE of the condition and habitual insistence upon properly checking that seats are LOCKED prior to flight... same as seat belts, doors and other checklist items.