Found mine...hopefully...
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
Found mine...hopefully...
Well, I finally got my hands on an airplane, or at least have an agreement and heading to a pre-purchase inspection next week.
I've got a shop doing the prebuy that came very well recommended. The airplane is a 55 that's pretty much stock original.
Assuming the prebuy all goes well, what are some mods you would look at doing sooner than later?
I'm thinking Shoulder Harnesses, BAS Tail Handles, and investigating the situation with the parking brake. I'll do a Transponder/ADS-B solution eventually, but it's not mandatory where I'll be flying so that may be 6 or 12 months down the road.
I've got a shop doing the prebuy that came very well recommended. The airplane is a 55 that's pretty much stock original.
Assuming the prebuy all goes well, what are some mods you would look at doing sooner than later?
I'm thinking Shoulder Harnesses, BAS Tail Handles, and investigating the situation with the parking brake. I'll do a Transponder/ADS-B solution eventually, but it's not mandatory where I'll be flying so that may be 6 or 12 months down the road.
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
if you haven't seen these and depending on your taste, have a look at these....
http://cessna170.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... 7f89d1435d
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... f=5&t=9270
http://cessna170.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... 7f89d1435d
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... f=5&t=9270
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
It’s difficult to offer advise as to how to improve the usefulness of your airplane without knowing it’s current status. If it IS original, that has value in itself until unwise modifications are performed, so it’d be a good idea IMO to determine what equipment it presently has and what end-result you’re desiring. The FIRST thing to consider is it’s present Avionics set-up. If it doesn’t have good Comm and Nav/GPS then that should be first on the list.
For example, what kind of flying do you anticipate? Public airports mainly? Or unimproved bush flying? (There are better choices than a 170 for serious bush-flying, and while the 170 has been used for that sort of thing quite successfully for light loads, it would not be my first choice for that work.)
For the average owner operating at public and private airfields, with a genuinely original airplane, I’d be looking at
1. Tailwheel tie-down eyebolt and main gear towing adaptors from an L19.
2. Shoulder Harnesses.
3. B.A.S. Tail-pull handles
4. Improved Inst panel lighting (if night flying is common)
5 Baggage Door Mod
6. CO Monitor
7. uAvionix SkyBeacon and SkySensor (And an Ipad to compliment)
I would never be interested in VGs or STOL because the original airplane will already get IN to places it cannot get back out of without more horsepower. More hp (IMO) would be best achieved with a $50K+ Continental IO-360 conversion. (But if you keep it light the stock airplane will operate in/out of 1500’ already.)
For example, what kind of flying do you anticipate? Public airports mainly? Or unimproved bush flying? (There are better choices than a 170 for serious bush-flying, and while the 170 has been used for that sort of thing quite successfully for light loads, it would not be my first choice for that work.)
For the average owner operating at public and private airfields, with a genuinely original airplane, I’d be looking at
1. Tailwheel tie-down eyebolt and main gear towing adaptors from an L19.
2. Shoulder Harnesses.
3. B.A.S. Tail-pull handles
4. Improved Inst panel lighting (if night flying is common)
5 Baggage Door Mod
6. CO Monitor
7. uAvionix SkyBeacon and SkySensor (And an Ipad to compliment)
I would never be interested in VGs or STOL because the original airplane will already get IN to places it cannot get back out of without more horsepower. More hp (IMO) would be best achieved with a $50K+ Continental IO-360 conversion. (But if you keep it light the stock airplane will operate in/out of 1500’ already.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
Thanks for the info guys.
As for my mission, it will be leisure flying around Eastern Washington and North Idaho, with the occasional trips venturing a little further. I fly professionally for a living, I've got no interest in single engine IFR and very limited interest in single engine at night, especially in the western terrain. So...read that as a 100% VFR and 99% DAY airplane. A good mix of grass and paved runways is hopefully in my future, though I don't see hitting the off-airport stuff much, at least not right away.
The airplane currently has a functioning single Comm/Nav unit and no Transponder. I'll probably go with the iPad for GPS.
gahorn, I think our lists are pretty close. Considering it's fairly original (It has Rosen visors and 700s for tires) I don't want to do much until after I get some time in it. Something appealing about having a nice, clean, classic airplane...well...after some time polishing that is. That said, I feel the Shoulder Harnesses are basically a must have safety item and the Pull Handles will be incredibly helpful getting the airplane into a hangar.
Considering much of my flying will be by myself or with one other person, I'm thinking the back seat will likely be removed.
Thanks for the info guys!
As for my mission, it will be leisure flying around Eastern Washington and North Idaho, with the occasional trips venturing a little further. I fly professionally for a living, I've got no interest in single engine IFR and very limited interest in single engine at night, especially in the western terrain. So...read that as a 100% VFR and 99% DAY airplane. A good mix of grass and paved runways is hopefully in my future, though I don't see hitting the off-airport stuff much, at least not right away.
The airplane currently has a functioning single Comm/Nav unit and no Transponder. I'll probably go with the iPad for GPS.
gahorn, I think our lists are pretty close. Considering it's fairly original (It has Rosen visors and 700s for tires) I don't want to do much until after I get some time in it. Something appealing about having a nice, clean, classic airplane...well...after some time polishing that is. That said, I feel the Shoulder Harnesses are basically a must have safety item and the Pull Handles will be incredibly helpful getting the airplane into a hangar.
Considering much of my flying will be by myself or with one other person, I'm thinking the back seat will likely be removed.
Thanks for the info guys!
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
Sounds promising, I hope the prebuy works out.
If you buy it, we'd love to see pictures, especially if it's stock original.
If you buy it, we'd love to see pictures, especially if it's stock original.
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10348
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
An idea for you. I've limited exposure to the BAS handles moving an L-19 around and the occasional 170. They are better than nothing at the tail end but barely. I find I still want to push on the elevator and have to restrain myself from grabbing the dorsal fin to steer. YOU DO NOT EVER want to grab the dorsal fin to steer.
GAHORN suggested the L-19 eye bolt for your tailwheel. I have had on for some time now. I also fashioned a pull hook (one version collapses for in the aircraft) which hooks into that eye bolt and with the T handle I can pull the aircraft backwards and steer it. It is invaluable to pull the aircraft back into the hanger. You may even find you don't need the BAS handles though having the eye bolt, a pull hook and the BAS handles, you would be covered as best you could be.
I find the 7:00x6 tires to be a nice compromise to the to small, IMO, 6:00x6, yet practically as tall as 8:00x6. And yet they are a bit narrower and I think only effect your speed half as much at the 8:00x6. My 170A has been operated out of grass with 7:00x6 since the '60s.
GAHORN suggested the L-19 eye bolt for your tailwheel. I have had on for some time now. I also fashioned a pull hook (one version collapses for in the aircraft) which hooks into that eye bolt and with the T handle I can pull the aircraft backwards and steer it. It is invaluable to pull the aircraft back into the hanger. You may even find you don't need the BAS handles though having the eye bolt, a pull hook and the BAS handles, you would be covered as best you could be.
I find the 7:00x6 tires to be a nice compromise to the to small, IMO, 6:00x6, yet practically as tall as 8:00x6. And yet they are a bit narrower and I think only effect your speed half as much at the 8:00x6. My 170A has been operated out of grass with 7:00x6 since the '60s.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
IP, ...
...with no present txdr you have wide lattitude how to address ADS-B if/when/should you decide to do that.
However, at the minimum I think I’d want a txdr for identification even if only for few anticipated interactions with ATC.
And that opens a couple of avenues of thought for myself if I were in that situation:
Used, simple txdrs are inexpensive now that many folks have bought more sophisticated ADS-B capable units,... so a cheap, simple txdr could be an easy install for you if you’re not intimidated by the pre-wired harnesses so many come with these days. That would put you back for less than $200 depending upon which unit you purchase.
Then, later-on, should you decide on ADS-B you could also do the labor to install a uAvionics SkyBeacon.
That path would put you into ADS-B for less than $2500 (Total, including the txdr)
Otherwise you can always later install one of the sophisticated txdrs that meet ADS-B requirements. (And ADS-B might prove useful in remote areas should you need ATC. My own ADS-B solution was a combination of decisions based upon the fact I already had a good operational txdr, a good (pair) of GPS units that met my needs, and I hated to think about sinking all my eggs into one basket (felt sort-of being trapped) should I switch to ONE unit that provided ALL the services of ADS-B (GPS, Ext-squitter, traffic, ATC, etc) because if that ONE unit failed then ALL those capabilities would suffer. Having them separated into several devices....most of which already paid-for... swung my decision to keep my simple/old Narco txdr and just buy the uAvionics, which also let me avoid the long-lines and high costs of an avionics-shop solution.
I also had another impetus... with a second airplane in the hangar with the same Narco txdr... I saw the opportunity to have interchangeability between the two,... plus another Assoc’n Member gave me his Narco as another spare because he’d selected a Stratus for himself. I’m Narco addicted I suppose, primarily because of price/availability .YMMV)
But back to your area of anticipated operations... you might better be served with some sort of personal locator and/or tracking beacon. There are several units on the market.
<edit>. Seeing Bruce posted as I was writing this post: RE: TAil pull handles: They are improperly named. They should be called tail-PUSH handles.
Bruce is correct, you can push your 170 backwards without much trouble using the horiz stab, and our Gone-West Historian/Mentor Cleo Bickford always promoted the idea of using the horiz stab end-rib ... or your butt against the fuselage... to push the tail sideways. Either works fine without risking damage to the dorsal-fin/fairing attachment.
The advantage of BAS tail-PUSH handles are when moving the 170 FORWARD. In a single-person operation, one has to push on a wing-strut, which turns the airplane in an ARC rather than a straight line. The tail-PUSH handles makes single-person movement forward possible, and you WILL find that helpful when visiting airfields other than your home base (where you only move it back into a spot)... or when you want it OUT of your home spot.
RE: tires: I have operated for 20 years now on rough-grass with 6:00 X 6 tires...and wheel fairings! Only once did the fairings cause trouble...on the takeoff to the Bardstown, KY convention when my strip was deeply-SOAKED and mud balled up inside them. It was easily noticed so I just made a precautionary at the first paved strip after takeoff and cleaned them out.
The advantage of wheel fairings is not speed, IMO... it’s their protection for the tail and wing-undersides from FOD ...and to keep water off the fuselage/windshield when taxying/landing/takeoff thru puddles. Un-faired wheels sling rocks, mud, and water all over the airplane.
The 6 inch tires have never been an issue for me regardless of where I wished to operate (but I don’t really practice “bush” operations.). I’ll bet your 700’s will do fine for you until you wear them out and have a chance to consider replacements commensurate with your experiences.
...with no present txdr you have wide lattitude how to address ADS-B if/when/should you decide to do that.
However, at the minimum I think I’d want a txdr for identification even if only for few anticipated interactions with ATC.
And that opens a couple of avenues of thought for myself if I were in that situation:
Used, simple txdrs are inexpensive now that many folks have bought more sophisticated ADS-B capable units,... so a cheap, simple txdr could be an easy install for you if you’re not intimidated by the pre-wired harnesses so many come with these days. That would put you back for less than $200 depending upon which unit you purchase.
Then, later-on, should you decide on ADS-B you could also do the labor to install a uAvionics SkyBeacon.
That path would put you into ADS-B for less than $2500 (Total, including the txdr)
Otherwise you can always later install one of the sophisticated txdrs that meet ADS-B requirements. (And ADS-B might prove useful in remote areas should you need ATC. My own ADS-B solution was a combination of decisions based upon the fact I already had a good operational txdr, a good (pair) of GPS units that met my needs, and I hated to think about sinking all my eggs into one basket (felt sort-of being trapped) should I switch to ONE unit that provided ALL the services of ADS-B (GPS, Ext-squitter, traffic, ATC, etc) because if that ONE unit failed then ALL those capabilities would suffer. Having them separated into several devices....most of which already paid-for... swung my decision to keep my simple/old Narco txdr and just buy the uAvionics, which also let me avoid the long-lines and high costs of an avionics-shop solution.
I also had another impetus... with a second airplane in the hangar with the same Narco txdr... I saw the opportunity to have interchangeability between the two,... plus another Assoc’n Member gave me his Narco as another spare because he’d selected a Stratus for himself. I’m Narco addicted I suppose, primarily because of price/availability .YMMV)
But back to your area of anticipated operations... you might better be served with some sort of personal locator and/or tracking beacon. There are several units on the market.
<edit>. Seeing Bruce posted as I was writing this post: RE: TAil pull handles: They are improperly named. They should be called tail-PUSH handles.
Bruce is correct, you can push your 170 backwards without much trouble using the horiz stab, and our Gone-West Historian/Mentor Cleo Bickford always promoted the idea of using the horiz stab end-rib ... or your butt against the fuselage... to push the tail sideways. Either works fine without risking damage to the dorsal-fin/fairing attachment.
The advantage of BAS tail-PUSH handles are when moving the 170 FORWARD. In a single-person operation, one has to push on a wing-strut, which turns the airplane in an ARC rather than a straight line. The tail-PUSH handles makes single-person movement forward possible, and you WILL find that helpful when visiting airfields other than your home base (where you only move it back into a spot)... or when you want it OUT of your home spot.
RE: tires: I have operated for 20 years now on rough-grass with 6:00 X 6 tires...and wheel fairings! Only once did the fairings cause trouble...on the takeoff to the Bardstown, KY convention when my strip was deeply-SOAKED and mud balled up inside them. It was easily noticed so I just made a precautionary at the first paved strip after takeoff and cleaned them out.
The advantage of wheel fairings is not speed, IMO... it’s their protection for the tail and wing-undersides from FOD ...and to keep water off the fuselage/windshield when taxying/landing/takeoff thru puddles. Un-faired wheels sling rocks, mud, and water all over the airplane.
The 6 inch tires have never been an issue for me regardless of where I wished to operate (but I don’t really practice “bush” operations.). I’ll bet your 700’s will do fine for you until you wear them out and have a chance to consider replacements commensurate with your experiences.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
Thanks again for the info.
My Transponder/ADS-B solution is very much a clean slate, with tons of available options. And that's probably why I hesitate to do anything right away, giving me time to evaluate all the options. I do have a Garmin Hiking GPS/PLB that I've used for some time (It was fun sending friends text messages from the Date Line or Equator taking an airplane to Australia and back). That will definitely be with me while flying.
I'll have to look at the L19 tail tie down ring. I know my buddy with a Skywagon has built a few towbars for friends of ours, so I was thinking of going that route too. I do think the PUSH handles would be a nice convenience though.
The 700s are basically brand new. So I'll definitely be going with those for a while.
Thanks again! I'll post pictures after I take possession.
My Transponder/ADS-B solution is very much a clean slate, with tons of available options. And that's probably why I hesitate to do anything right away, giving me time to evaluate all the options. I do have a Garmin Hiking GPS/PLB that I've used for some time (It was fun sending friends text messages from the Date Line or Equator taking an airplane to Australia and back). That will definitely be with me while flying.
I'll have to look at the L19 tail tie down ring. I know my buddy with a Skywagon has built a few towbars for friends of ours, so I was thinking of going that route too. I do think the PUSH handles would be a nice convenience though.
The 700s are basically brand new. So I'll definitely be going with those for a while.
Thanks again! I'll post pictures after I take possession.
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
I hope your “Pre-Buy” is actually a Full Annual Inspection. So-called “pre buys” have no legal standing.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
The shop doing the prebuy came well recommended from folks independent of the transaction.
I’m coordinating with the shop to open the airplane up and look at all the big ticket items. Assuming all goes well and we close on the sale, the shop is going to hold on to the airplane and finish off an annual...and likely do the shoulder harness install and the BAS handles.
The airplane is in annual, due August. Living up north I’d rather have a winter annual instead of watching the good flying summer days go by with an airplane in the shop.
I’m coordinating with the shop to open the airplane up and look at all the big ticket items. Assuming all goes well and we close on the sale, the shop is going to hold on to the airplane and finish off an annual...and likely do the shoulder harness install and the BAS handles.
The airplane is in annual, due August. Living up north I’d rather have a winter annual instead of watching the good flying summer days go by with an airplane in the shop.
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
I’m kind of a “broken record” on this subject. If your “prebuy” brings you to “own” this airplane, you’ll be owning whatever the “prebuy” did not discover and you’ll have no recourse against inspector OR seller because a “prebuy” has no legal standing.IP076 wrote:The shop doing the prebuy came well recommended from folks independent of the transaction.
I’m coordinating with the shop to open the airplane up and look at all the big ticket items. Assuming all goes well and we close on the sale, the shop is going to hold on to the airplane and finish off an annual...and likely do the shoulder harness install and the BAS handles.
The airplane is in annual, due August. Living up north I’d rather have a winter annual instead of watching the good flying summer days go by with an airplane in the shop.
If you plan to complete an annual inspection after the “Prebuy”... then you’ll be out the expense of both inspections IN ADDITION to any airworthiness defects discovered during that annual and missed by that “prebuy”.
The ONLY inspection which determines “airworthiness” is an Annual Inspection. Of course, I’m assuming you only want to buy an airworthy airplane and not an airworthiness problem with Invoice to make it airworthy.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
Hope all is well with the pre-buy.. You're welcome to fly with me for some transitional training if you want. I'm based at KCOE and live in Liberty Lake..
1950 Cessna 170A model
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
Thank you! The pre-buy is delayed due to weather and some logistics to be worked out. Target is next week.Deputydog wrote:Hope all is well with the pre-buy.. You're welcome to fly with me for some transitional training if you want. I'm based at KCOE and live in Liberty Lake..
I live in east Spokane Valley, between Sullivan and Barker basically. Looking at COE as a potential base, if you have any inside info on hangar availability that'd be great.
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
Ok sounds good, and I’m actually off Barker too in Morningside. I’m in a shared hangar and there may be an opening soon.
If you need help getting your 170 back I can go with you.
If you need help getting your 170 back I can go with you.
1950 Cessna 170A model
Re: Found mine...hopefully...
Hey all, back looking for some ideas.
The logistics on the pre-purchase inspection have been difficult given the weather and the Coronavirus impact, and well a few other things. I had a shop that came highly recommended, but was approximately 300nm away from the airplane's home. The sellers had a person that was going to fly it to that shop, but that fell through. Somewhat understandably, they're hesitant to send the airplane to a far away shop with an unknown person. I have no reason to suspect any issues, but I would agree...If I were selling the airplane I'd be fearful of what would happen if a shop that far away uncovered something significant.
The weather has been preventing that trip anyways, and the airplane is still relatively snowed in.
I guess what I'm after, does anyone have any recommendations for maintenance folks to do a pre-buy in the Havre or Great Falls, Montana area? Any other thoughts?
Hope everyone is getting by with all that's going on.
The logistics on the pre-purchase inspection have been difficult given the weather and the Coronavirus impact, and well a few other things. I had a shop that came highly recommended, but was approximately 300nm away from the airplane's home. The sellers had a person that was going to fly it to that shop, but that fell through. Somewhat understandably, they're hesitant to send the airplane to a far away shop with an unknown person. I have no reason to suspect any issues, but I would agree...If I were selling the airplane I'd be fearful of what would happen if a shop that far away uncovered something significant.
The weather has been preventing that trip anyways, and the airplane is still relatively snowed in.
I guess what I'm after, does anyone have any recommendations for maintenance folks to do a pre-buy in the Havre or Great Falls, Montana area? Any other thoughts?
Hope everyone is getting by with all that's going on.