I'm Tall Are There Short Seat Frames Available

[interstellardust]

I'm 6'6" tall and with original seats installed I can kind of fit my hand between my head and the original headliner. With a headset on it touches the headliner lightly.

My seats are shot and I am redoing the whole original interior. I wasted over 5 years trying to match the original upholstery. Then had a very bad experience with Airtex. Long story.

My current effort is installing SportAircraftSeats purchased from Alaska. I ordered the thinest version because I am tall. They are still about an inch thicker than the original foam. They also have side bolsters which make things worse. Not good for the headliner. They do look great.

The original seats have springs holding up the seat. They arch up with no weight on them but flex down below level when I sit on them. SportAircraft recommends removing the springs and installing webbing but that makes them taller than the springs with weight on them.

Are there any compatible seats which have shorter frames? Seems like I read here somewhere here that 206 middle row seats are shorter but I don't know if there are other fit issues.

[GAHorn]

This is not an answer you are seeking…but if you do substitute seats from other models…be aware that some other model Cessna seats have AD notes on them. One problem with AD notes is that they will be issued against the original airframe models….and not to where those items may actually be installed. So a “Note” in your Annual AD-List/Records to grab your inspectors’ attention might be a good idea.

(You might look into “articulating” seats from later model Cessna 172s. I don’t know they are actually any shorter…but I’ll go out to the hangar and look at our ‘62 C-model and see… if so, I’ll follow-up post.)

Is your headliner original? Is it properly installed. Have you consulted with a surgeon about vertebrae-removal surgery?

(One consolation might be age…. my Dr says I’m shorter than I was last year….

[Ryan Smith]

Also not an answer to your question, but I’d love to hear your experience with Airtex. I am considering doing their seats for my Bonanza, but I’ve heard more than one dissatisfied customer. Contact me off-list if preferred.

I’m slightly more vertically challenged than you at 6’ 3” and can sympathize with headroom with stock seats.

[daedaluscan]

I sympathise, I am 6'3" with a long torso. I got the pilots side seat reupholstered with less foam when I bought the plane and just fit. Be aware the these seats are old, and lightly built.

I have resisted pulling the headliner because it looks good, but that will give you a few inches.

I have seen 170 seats that have failed at the articulation, probably from abuse - don't let anyone push against the seat back to lift their butt off the cushion to access a buckled lap belt for example.

But they are just chrome moly welded together and if a guy was not worried about paperwork they could easily be lowered an inch or so....

[hilltop170]

I'm 6'6" tall and with original seats installed I can kind of fit my hand between my head and the original headliner. With a headset on it touches the headliner lightly........
........Are there any compatible seats which have shorter frames? Seems like I read here somewhere here that 206 middle row seats are shorter but I don't know if there are other fit issues.

Bill-
To expand on George's reply, yes, later model 182 or 206 fully articulating seats with 2 adjustment cranks do sit lower than stock seats when cranked all the way down. Note: some so-called "articulating" seats only have a crank for the seat back recline adjustment so be careful to only get seats with 2 cranks for seat recline and up-down adjustment.

The only downside to the later seats, and it won't be a downside for you, is the seats are wider than original and hit the doorpost before moving to the most forward seat track holes. Also, they can only be removed and installed with the back seat removed.

If you are going to the Sault Ste. Marie 170 convention or Oshkosh, look me up and you can try them for yourself.

The seat backs are taller than the original seats and have provisions for head rests if you want them. I had Ceconite stretched over the frame bottoms when they were recovered with minimum flat foam padding and "waterfall" fronts with no bolsters on the seat bottoms for minimum height. They are very comfortable even on all day trips. I found mine at Air Salvage Dallas but any aircraft salvage should have them.

As for 206 middle row seats, yes, they are shorter but they also have wider seat track spacing of 12-3/4" instead of the front seat 11" so they will not fit. I got a Field Approval to use a Kenmore Air Harbor STC for 206 middle seats as back seats in 180/185s and they work nicely there. The added seat tracks are also handy for cargo tie downs.

C210 middle seats sit even lower than 206 middle seats but again their track spacing is 9" instead of 11" for front seats so they will not work either.

Click on the pictures to enlarge and to correct the orientation.

Hope this helps.

C182 fully articulated front seats

C206 middle seats as 170 rear seats

C210 middle seat- left, C206 middle seat- right

[n2582d]

Are there any compatible seats which have shorter frames? Seems like I read here somewhere here that 206 middle row seats are shorter but I don't know if there are other fit issues.

Bill,
Using the search window at the top of the page using terms such as "adjustable" "seat*" and "articulating" one comes up with results such as this one by Richard which shows that the C-206 seats use a wider track spacing. That may work as a back seat but I don't think there is the space for that as a front seat.

Here's a thread on the subject of headroom. Adjustable height seats from C-172's will give more headroom as this thread, entitled Tall pilot in a 170?, discusses. Be aware there are issues with installing these seats as discussed in this thread. There are several seat airworthiness directives that apply to C-172 seats but these are unique to the C-172R and C-172S (Ad 2007-05-10 and AD 2008-05-09). Unlike earlier 172’s, seats from these planes have latching pins that are horizontal rather than vertical so they wouldn't fit on C-170 seat rails. Later Cessna seats abandoned the zig zag springs. Here's a picture of the latest style Cessna used on the 172. Doing something similar on your 170 seat might allow for a few more inches of headroom.

The L-19 seat frame is more similar to the one in the C-170 but, like the latest C-172 seat, a "dishpan" seat bottom would provide more space vertically.

Shortening your existing seat legs or adding a skylight would give more headroom. But with any of these modification options -- as my kid would say -- "the juice is not worth the squeeze." Approval would be daunting; these are not minor alterations.

[interstellardust]

Thanks for all the information. I don't know why I didn't think to just search the 6324 Hangar topics for "headroom". I found a lot of good information on more than one thread.

All things considered, I think I'll stay with my stock frames. The stock springs do have about an inch crown in the middle with no weight on them. It's hard to see but it looks like they flex down about 1/4" with my weight on them. I took a phone video to check.

Daniel at Sport Aircraft Seats where I bought new seat cushions advised I remove the springs and install the synthetic webbing they supply with a little slack in them. That will at least get them down to the level the springs are with weight on them and will remove the thickness (and weight) of the springs and clips that hold them. Maybe an 1/8".

Daniel also said if I'd ship the seats back he would see if he could make the foam in the cushions a little thinner. I already ordered the thin version but looking inside the cushions, there is a 1" firm base foam that he might get a 1/2" out of.

I'll talk with him again as I expect this will be more work for him adjusting seams but he has been very accommodating.

The workmanship and materials of the Sport Aircraft Seats are excellent.

I really don't want to remove the healiner but down the road sewing the headliner tighter to the arches would help until I hit something solid.

As for my experience with Airtex, see the Interior Refresh thread. Thanks so much Brian Olsen for your help there. I do NOT recommend Airtex.

There are also a bunch of photos of my original 1955 interior on the Interior Pics thread if interested.

As for waiting for age to shrink me, I'm already 71

[interstellardust]

They look great in there.

Here are a few pictures of the Sport Aircraft Seats for reference. Note the crown in the copilot seat made by the stock springs. The bolsters also may effect headroom some. One shot shows the foam in the seat bottom. The 1" thick layer is fairly firm. The thinner foam on top of that compresses easily. Stock seats have two 1/2" layers of foam that compress easily.

[DaveF]

Good decision to stay with the stock seats if you can. My airplane has seats from a 1975 172 that cause all kinds of problems. I adjusted their heights when I bought the airplane 15 years ago and haven’t touched them since!

[interstellardust]

Well I'm not sure what to do now. I have flown with the new SportAircraftSeats a couple of times now. By head is hard against the headliner and it is hard to look back out the side window to see what the rudder is doing during preflight. I also get a stiff neck while flying looking under the wing for traffic. The lumbar support doesn't exactly line up for me either. The quality of these seats is great but I'm just too tall to give up an inch of headroom.

[interstellardust]

To update: Daniel at Sport Aircraft Seats had me send the seat cushions back and installed softer foam in them. I am back to the same head clearance I had with my stock seats. I also told him the bolsters on the rear seat kept it from folding down flat making access to the baggage compartment very difficult. He made a new pattern without the bolsters and sent a new back along with the front cushions. No charge. I couldn't be happier with Sport Aircraft Seats customer service.

[RCoulter]

I recently purchased a 170 that has articulating seats that were modified for the 170 to not hit the door post. Has blue and grey upholstery. I am thinking of selling them as the stock seats are lighter and work fine for me. The feet on these are replaceable, which I would replace. And there is a pin that the hinge snaps to that probably should be replaced.

I may rebuild them and sell them or just sell them as is. I know the reason they were in there was he was tall….and they reclined and they traveled a lot in the plane.

[interstellardust]

As mentioned above, 206 seats fit on seat tracks that are further apart than stock 170 rails so they would require modification of the frame or the tracks themselves. I have moved on.

[GAHorn]

Just a note/reminder…. aircraft seats are designed and tested to meet crashworthiness issues and modification should take that into considertion.

While cutting and welding seat frames might be done to an appropriate standard… the end-result might not meet the requirements if dimensional changes are made.

(Seat backs are one issue that might be overlooked. The front seats must allow for rear seat occupants to exit the aircraft. The folding front seat backs can rust internally to the point they weaken and can collapse during takeoff/climb…. allowing the pilot to fall rearwards …pulling on the yoke …or losing control of the aircraft exactly when such a rearward shift of C.G. might contribute to a stall. (The accident reports of some models aircraft are illustrative of fatalities when this has occurred. BTW, this is another reason to be consistent setting pitch-trim for takeoff so that you might release the yoke and the airplane continue normal climb.)
Substituting seats from a different model …or serial-range even…. can affect airworthiness and may also complicate AD-researches on your airpalne. (An AD against C206 aircraft due to seat issues will be easily missed by anyone inspecting a C170).

I’m only offering a caution to anyone considering altering or substituting different seats as to safety and certification issues.

[interstellardust]

All good points. That is why I stuck with my stock seat frames.