Voltage Regulator

[jmbrwn]

I'm looking at replacing my voltage regulator. I checked my current one and it looks pretty old. After checking, I found that I have a 12amp generator . I did a search and found the part numbers for 20 & 35 amp gens...but no 12 amp. Can anyone give me the part number for voltage regulator with a 12 amp generator? Also where to get one?

Thanks in advance.

[GAHorn]

The original part number (Delco-Remy) was 1118383, but it has been superceded by VR-300-14-20 (same as the 20A unit, formerly known as 1118736.) El Reno (800-521-0333) sells them for about $170 last I checked. Spruce 877-477-7823 lists it for $119. The AutoZone "ground test purposes only" equivalent is VR-605 (fits a late '50's era Chevy PU.)
You might also be aware that Hazotronics (Zeftronics) also makes solid state replacements. 800-362-8985

[jmbrwn]

I checked with AutoZone today, and when they put VR605 into their computer, nothing showed up I went to 4 different parts houses today, taking my old voltage regulator with me, to no avail. I believe my old one is a Borg-Warner model VR384. One store carried Borg-Warner products, but this part number did not register in their computer I believe VR605 is made by Eckland(sp). I asked for a VR605 at all the parts houses I visited and 3 others that I called, to no avail. I thought getting the new one would be the easy part.

[GAHorn]

VR-605 is made by Wells. It is an exact Delco-Remy look-alike. When I called my local AutoZone, they had difficulty finding it listed as well, but when they went to their paper catalogs they found it as a special order item.
Their website also had difficulty until I entered it with a hyphen...then it identified it as a voltage regulator and then when I asked for price could not locate it. (But last time I priced it about 2 years ago it was less than $30.)

The NAPA equivalent is ECHVR122, which is made by Echlin, and is priced at $78. (I think I'd buy the genuine item from Spruce VR300-14-20 for $119. Interestingly, the 35A model is the Napa ECHVR126 priced at $45.)

The Zeftronics 14volt, 12amp solid state regulator is their G1120N. (Their pn's middle two digits indicate the amperage of the unit. For example, their G1200N is a 20 amp unit, the G1250N is 25 amp, and the G1350N is the 35 amp unit.) They exactly replace the original Delco-Remy or Electrodelta units. All the mentioned units are priced at $198.

(A note about Zeftronics:
I have personally met Mr. Femi Ibitayo, prinicpal and electrical engineering designer of their products. He is originally from Nigeria, and attended La Tourneau Univ. in Longview, TX (a Christian institution) where he obtained his degree in electrical engineering.
Mr. Ibitayo showed me his back-room assembly stations and introduced me to his workers. It is a very small organization consisting of only about a half dozen workers.
When I inquired as to his background and reasons for starting his company he was very shy, but eventually told me that he feels his purpose is to send the majority of profits from his aircraft electrical products to Christian missions he supports in West Africa. (I followed up on his statements and confirmed the integrity of his statements. He may be researched also thru the university.)
Mr. Ibitayo informed me that Christians in West Africa come under constant attack and pressure from terrorist groups usually of a certain other very aggressive religion. A Christian businessman will have his business burned and will be told his home is next. His family will be threatened when he is away on business. His neighbors will be told, "See what happens to infidels?" Mr. Ibitayo's mission is to use his company's profits to provide start-up loans for Christian owned businesses in West Africa, and food and financial help to family victims. He has been doing this for almost 20 years.
As for his products, he makes an excellent product that anecdotally is said to make generators behave almost as good as alternators, as it brings them online at lower rpms and has certain auto-protect and self-test features.
When I first met him, I had ordered two of his regulators for my Baron. When I subsequently discovered the root cause of the Baron's electrical problems did not require regulators, Mr. Ibitayo cheerfully refunded my money even though it had been almost 90 days since I'd purchased them. He even refunded the freight!
The company website is: http://www.zeftronics.com
Detailed PDF files can be seen there that describe his products, their design features, and charging system troubleshooting guides.

[ak2711c]

Thats good to know the back ground on Zeftronics. I have used their products for years with no complaints. It's not very often that you run into that kind of generosity any more. I will definitely send all the business I can their way.
Shawn

[jrenwick]

I recently had to debug a charging-circuit problem on my 170. My Zeftronics alternator controller was not the problem, but I found the data I downloaded from their website to be most helpful in figuring it out. Many companies aren't as good at making their technical information available as Zeftronics is. I'm glad to know their interesting background, as well. Thanks, George.
- John

[doakes]

I had regulator problems with the old Chevy type and tried to find a new one that looked like the old one. I found a new one but it looked different and I new that my IA would discover a "Car" regulator on the plane and would not accept it.
I then ordered a new one from Zeftronics and when it arrived I installed it and it would charge fine in the first few minutes of use and then go discharge.
I called the supplier and ask then what the problem might be and was told immediately that they would send a new one out and that I was to return the old one. They paid for shipping both ways and I have not had trouble since.
I certainly did not like the price of Zeftronics vs the auto type, but have had no trouble since.
The company certainly took good care with my situation.
Dave

[jmbrwn]

Went to AutoZone again yesteday...told him to put a hyphen in VR-605...2 seconds later it popped up on screen...5 seconds later he had it on the counter...cost....$20.49 Went to airport and installed...ops specs good

Thanks again to all for replying.

[dmccasland]

Thanks so much gahorn and others for your advice on the Wells VR!

I don't have a Cessna 170. But I'm a partner in a Cessna 150F (1966). This has a 14V 20A generator. We just got this plane and gen. light was staying on and the ammeter never showed charging.

This morning I bought a Wells VR-605 at Autozone, popped it in, polarized the gen, and now everything is back to normal. (Seems I had the same go-around with Autozone. I called them a week ago and they said the part didn't exist, even tho it's on their website. Meanwhile I had learned to ask for a 58 Chevy truck VR. So I called yesterday with that request and the guy says he's got one, come get it.)

Question: the VR-605 *is* for a 20A generator, right? That's what I read in a few places. But I've also seen 25 or 30A mentioned for the VR-605. There is absolutely no info from Wells website on this, or from Autozone. Some sites show the 58 Chevy truck with a 30A generator, and even with an alternator, which can't be right.

This aftermarket part was an inexpensive diagnostic. What are the ramifications of leaving it in the a/c? (I also put in a $20 Everstart tractor battery, vs. the G25 Teledyne.)

Thanks for any info.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

This aftermarket part was an inexpensive diagnostic. What are the ramifications of leaving it in the a/c? (I also put in a $20 Everstart tractor battery, vs. the G25 Teledyne.)

Thanks for any info.

Like many things in life there are no ramifications if you don't get caught. If you fly your airplane after installing other than legal parts with no basis for approval you are flying an un-airworthy aircraft.

What could happen. If it is discovered on a ramp check you may be looking at a suspension of your license. If you have an accident or incident your insurance company may not pay out. If you hurt someone with your illegal plane where do you think you'll stand defending yourself against the law suit.

Now having said that. What looks like a duck and quacks like a duck PROBABLY is a duck. You would be hard pressed to find a mechanic to identify what is a legal regulator and what is not. (keep in mind this doesn't make it legal)

On the other hand that tractor battery with the big letters EVERSTART doesn't even come close to looking like any legal battery I've seen so I'll bet I could find almost any mechanic or FAA guy to identify that battery as being illegal 10 out of 10 times.

[GAHorn]

The VR-605 is frequently listed as a 20-30 Amp regulator, but it is usually calibrated at 20 Amps for sale for a wide variety of generator systems. This can be done because of the manner in which the system operates. Keep in mind that a 30A generator can utilize a 20A regulator....but the reverse cannot be safely done.
A 20A regulator installed to control a 30A generator will control that gen and regulate it at 20A (nominal). (The lower-rated reg will never request more than 20A from the gen.) This does no harm, therefore the regulator can be safely installed on a gen rated at 20A or more.
But a 20A gen should not be mated with a 30A or larger regulator because the larger regulator is capable of demanding more output than the gen is capable of, and it can lead to an overheated gen.
To run a quick-and-dirty check of your system, (keeping in mind that this procedure assumes your ammeter to be accurate) you can deeply discharge your battery and then see how much your ammeter indicates during a subsequent charge cycle. To do this, Pull your gen fuse/CB and start your engine. Turn on your landing lights and allow the battery to discharge for about 3-5 minutes. Do NOT turn on any avionics.
After the battery is sufficiently discharged, Turn OFF...your landing lights and any other electrical items except your master switch, run your engine up to 2000-2200 rpm and then reset your gen fuse and/or CB and note the maximum charge rate your ammeter indicates. A "swing" of your ammeter above the regulator rating may occur for only a moment...but your ammeter should stabilize and indicate the maximum regulator setting during the charge which occurs over the next minute or so. If your ammeter indicates more than 20-22 Amps then the regulator should be re-calibrated. (This is assuming you wish to regulate a 20A gen.)
As for using an automotive regulator in an aircraft: It is the same as any other part installed in an airplane. An automotive part will not carry FAA approval for aircraft use. This is true of other parts also, no matter how seemingly identical those parts may be. Most aircraft parts have some type of indentification on them signifying their applicability to aircraft. As for voltage regulators like these, to the untrained eye it can be very difficult to determine whether they are genuine aircraft parts or not. This can be especially true when the original aircraft regulator's sheet metal cover is accidentally substituted in place of the automotive cover. (I have seen ink-stamped "FAA-PMA" on some which wears off easily, and I've also seen it indelibly stamped with dies onto the regulator base. And I've seen some aircraft regulators with no FAA identifying feature at all.) By removing the regulator from the firewall and looking underneath it, the automotive part can sometimes be identified by the lack of "potting" on the wire-wound resistor on the underneath side. Aircraft regulators have their resistors protected from the elements by a high temp "potting" material resembling white, high-temp RTV, while most automotive units do not. Otherwise they can be very difficult to differentiate from one another, as their design, function, and features are virtually identical. My own airplane flew for many years with an automotive unit, before I replaced it. That automotive unit was not "logged" onto the aircraft records, and there was no way to determine who may have installed it, and no inspector ever noticed before I replaced it. None have noticed the change to the aircraft unit either.

[j3pup]

VR-605 is $33.15 at AutoZone from the website after tax and shipping 12/4/2009.

[voorheesh]

All the major general aviation airframe and engine manufacturers employ professional accident investigators who are usually A&P rated with engineering backgrounds. In the case of Cessna Aircraft Company, this position is one of the ways of moving up in company management. These investigators respond to every accident involving their company's products. In the case of an accident involving fatalities or serious injuries, they become parties to the investigation and actually assist NTSB and FAA on site. After all they are the experts in evaluating these aircraft. They carry powerful laptop computers that contain up to date databases for every aircraft their company has ever produced and they use this to help determine if the components found at the accident site are approved to be installed on the aircraft. Most FAA and NTSB investigators are also capable of identifying automotive or other bogus parts , but it is the manufacturer who can track a part number or determine the status of virtually any component discovered in an aircraft . Their findings become part of the factual investigative report. If unapproved parts are discovered, the aircraft manufacturer can use this information to defend themselves from possible law suits. Insurance companys also obtain this information and can use it to deny coverage particularly if they can prove that the insured intentionally caused the aircraft to be in that condition.
It would be very unusual to have unapproved parts discovered on an FAA ramp check because the FAA does not normally open up a cowling or go deeper than the exterior. The FAA relies on mechanics with inspection authorizations to catch this stuff but owners who care enough to get a thorough annual are usually not the ones who install automotive parts and are happy enough to have them replaced if they are discovered. If the FAA does discover this stuff, you are more likely to get a request to correct than a suspension. It is difficult to "prove" who installed it or flew it and those elements are necessary to uphold a suspension.
Its really a matter of personal choice and my only advice is that we should really think through the implications and potential consequences of going down these roads. If I bought an airplane and later found the previous owner had used bogus parts, how would I feel? If I had a loved one killed or injured in an accident and later found out the pilot used parts from auto zone, would that make a difference? Most pilots pride themselves for their skill and good judgement and like the big guy upstairs says, the real test is what we do when no one is looking. Fly safe.

[n2582d]

Attached is a Cessna Newsletter from 1983 on the subject of substituting automotive voltage regulators.

NL83-15.pdf

[GAHorn]

Attached is a Cessna Newsletter from 1983 on the subject of substituting automotive voltage regulators.

NL83-15.pdf

That Newletter is…to put it politely…. not applicable to generators. Cessna wanted to sell “aviation” regulators they had their Part Number stamped upon it. (Also the Wells VR730 was incorrect for reasons other than being “automotive” anyway. It was incorrect because it was for an ALTERNATOR…. not a generator.
If your airplane has an ALTERNATOR installed per an STC you must use an Alternator regulator approved IN THAT STC.)

FAA Advisory Circular 23-27 is a basis for using a quality automotive regulator as discussed in other threads. This was also brought to our attention by Bill? Andersen, FAA Inspector at the Benton Harbor, MI convention. One discussion about this is at viewtopic.php?f=24&t=15515&p=144186&hil ... ar#p144186

By the way…there is Nothing Special about the original generator/regulator originally installed in these airplanes. They are exactly the same sophistication found in 1948 thru 1960 automobiles and trucks which used the same type and quality of components.