Looking through my logs back to 1955, I've found that in 69 a Grimes Rotating Beacon D-7080-1-12 was added along with Landing Lights. In 1977 Hoskins Strobe Light PN 701620-1 was added. My question is - can I take these off, since they were not part of the original equipment according to my weight n balance sheet?
What are the mandatory saftey lights now?
I want to get everything that is not neccessary, off the plane before painting it. I now have strobes on the wingtips as well. So what about the big red beacon on the back and the big white crusty strobe on the belly?
Safety Lights
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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mvivion
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:07 am
Dave,
That question is impossible to answer unless you state what sort of operations you intend to conduct.
The beginning is to find out what was installed on the original equipment list, and what's on the TC. For basic day VFR flight, I don't believe that ANY lights are required, of any kind. Note that a lot of planes were built and certified with no electrical system.
Now, if you want to do night VFR, with no commercial operations, you will need an anti collision light and position lights, as well as instrument lighting, of course. The TC will tell you what was required, and your equipment list will tell you what was originally installed.
If you want to do commercial operations, at night, then landing lights are required as well as the aforementioned.
Strobe lights may be substituted for the conventional beacons, but only if they meet strict visibility standards.
Most night airplanes are going to have a rotating beacon of some sort (and this too must meet certain visibility requirements, as to azimuth) and strobes. Wingtip strobes may not meet the full requirement of the FAR for anti collision lighting.
Google over to Whelan's web site. They offer all sorts of description of what's required to be legal at night.
And get with a good mechanic to verify that what you want to do is in fact legal, per the airplane's TC and stc. Most if not all of Whelan's stuff is stc'd.
This is a complex topic, so be sure you have all the answers before charging ahead.
Mike Vivion
That question is impossible to answer unless you state what sort of operations you intend to conduct.
The beginning is to find out what was installed on the original equipment list, and what's on the TC. For basic day VFR flight, I don't believe that ANY lights are required, of any kind. Note that a lot of planes were built and certified with no electrical system.
Now, if you want to do night VFR, with no commercial operations, you will need an anti collision light and position lights, as well as instrument lighting, of course. The TC will tell you what was required, and your equipment list will tell you what was originally installed.
If you want to do commercial operations, at night, then landing lights are required as well as the aforementioned.
Strobe lights may be substituted for the conventional beacons, but only if they meet strict visibility standards.
Most night airplanes are going to have a rotating beacon of some sort (and this too must meet certain visibility requirements, as to azimuth) and strobes. Wingtip strobes may not meet the full requirement of the FAR for anti collision lighting.
Google over to Whelan's web site. They offer all sorts of description of what's required to be legal at night.
And get with a good mechanic to verify that what you want to do is in fact legal, per the airplane's TC and stc. Most if not all of Whelan's stuff is stc'd.
This is a complex topic, so be sure you have all the answers before charging ahead.
Mike Vivion
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AR Dave
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:06 pm
Thanks Mike,
I'm paragraph number 2, VFR night/day - no commercial, but occasionally ignoring "VFR not recommended". I have the Whelen Strobes on the tips. Got to go to the big airport this am, so will look up the Whelen Site Wed..
My original equip list shows no lights at all.
I'm paragraph number 2, VFR night/day - no commercial, but occasionally ignoring "VFR not recommended". I have the Whelen Strobes on the tips. Got to go to the big airport this am, so will look up the Whelen Site Wed..
My original equip list shows no lights at all.
Last edited by AR Dave on Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
The Whelen lighting section of my Univair catalog shows anti-collision lighting requirements. Basically, visible for 360 degrees around the airplane's vertical axis, and 30 degrees above & below the horizontal plane. The illustration (a picture's woth a thousand words) shows that collision light(s) in one of three locations meets the requirement: 1) both wingtips (strobes) 2) top of tail, or 3) top AND bottom of fuselage. Plus position lights, of course. There may be lesser requirements for 170's due to their age, check the FAR's. A lot of 170's & 180's I see have just the top-mounted rotating beacon, which does NOT give the required coverage according to the Whelen diagrams. Wingtip strobes seem to be the cleanest way to go for the full coverage as above--I've seen stobes mounted atop the tail on 170's & 180's and IMHO it is not attractive.
Eric
Eric
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mvivion
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:07 am
Eric,
Now that you mention it, I beloieve aircrft spruce catalog also has some diagrams.
In discussions with FAA and my mechnics, though, we concluded that simple wing tip strobes without a tail strobe didn't meet the requirements, but its pretty fuzzy as to why.
Anyway, you'll have to get the FAA involved at some point, so I'd consult with them up front, and let them do the research.
The requirements, as I recall, arent very clear.
The main point, though is to be seen, so that's my default.
Mike
Now that you mention it, I beloieve aircrft spruce catalog also has some diagrams.
In discussions with FAA and my mechnics, though, we concluded that simple wing tip strobes without a tail strobe didn't meet the requirements, but its pretty fuzzy as to why.
Anyway, you'll have to get the FAA involved at some point, so I'd consult with them up front, and let them do the research.
The requirements, as I recall, arent very clear.
The main point, though is to be seen, so that's my default.
Mike
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
The externally-mounted wingtip strobes provide the req'd 360' coverage, according to the chart. If the wingtip strobes are mounted inside a wingtip landing light enclosure, they do NOT have the req'd coverage aft, in which case a combination strobe/position light on the rudder would also be req'd.
Eric
Eric
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russfarris
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Wed May 15, 2002 2:25 am
Since George seems to be out working, I'll put in my two cents worth on the lighting issue.
When the 170 was originally built, the only requirement for night flight was the three-position nav lights. Strobes and rotating beacons didn't exist for general aviation airplanes in the early 1950s, although airliners had rotating beacons. I believe the Cessna 310 in 1955 was the first GA airplane to have a rotating beacon from the factory.
Nav light flight flasher units were common in the 1950s as a way to increase your visibilty to others (hopefully.)
In the mid 1960s the FAA changed the rules to require a rotating beacon for night flight; the strobe lights were also coming out during this period and were also acceptable. Enough ancient history.
On my airplane, an ancient Wheelen strobe was mounted on top of the fuselage, behind the wing. When it gave up the ghost, I replaced it with an FS-4400 (available for 169.00 from Aircraft Spruce.) Later, to be totally legal, I mounted another FS-4400 on the belly. I've had several comments on how visable and effective they are. They are STCd on the 180, but you need to do the 337 dance for our birds. This is most cost effective and highest performance arrangement for the money. BTW, you can get them with red lenses, or half and half.
I'll probably get roasted for this, but in my IMHO light airplane wing tip strobes are pretty useless. They don't put out the candlepower of a full size strobe unit. They may meet the legal requirements, but I want LOTS of candlepower, in case 43A decides to kiss another DC-3...Russ Farris
When the 170 was originally built, the only requirement for night flight was the three-position nav lights. Strobes and rotating beacons didn't exist for general aviation airplanes in the early 1950s, although airliners had rotating beacons. I believe the Cessna 310 in 1955 was the first GA airplane to have a rotating beacon from the factory.
Nav light flight flasher units were common in the 1950s as a way to increase your visibilty to others (hopefully.)
In the mid 1960s the FAA changed the rules to require a rotating beacon for night flight; the strobe lights were also coming out during this period and were also acceptable. Enough ancient history.
On my airplane, an ancient Wheelen strobe was mounted on top of the fuselage, behind the wing. When it gave up the ghost, I replaced it with an FS-4400 (available for 169.00 from Aircraft Spruce.) Later, to be totally legal, I mounted another FS-4400 on the belly. I've had several comments on how visable and effective they are. They are STCd on the 180, but you need to do the 337 dance for our birds. This is most cost effective and highest performance arrangement for the money. BTW, you can get them with red lenses, or half and half.
I'll probably get roasted for this, but in my IMHO light airplane wing tip strobes are pretty useless. They don't put out the candlepower of a full size strobe unit. They may meet the legal requirements, but I want LOTS of candlepower, in case 43A decides to kiss another DC-3...Russ Farris
All glory is fleeting...
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
The FlightStrobe units are priced very reasonably also. You can buy two of them for less than the cost of one comparable Whelen unit. FS unit looks better too.
Latest Spruce catalog sez $134 for a FlightStrobe FS-4400, and $355 for a Whelen HR-CFA or SA-CF. The main difference is the "comet-flash" feature of the Whelen strobes. The FS draws 3 amps versus 2 amps for the Whelen, that seems to indicate maybe a little brighter flash, but the catalog doesn't list the "joules" produced.
Aeroflash also produces a line of less expensive strobes.
Eric
Latest Spruce catalog sez $134 for a FlightStrobe FS-4400, and $355 for a Whelen HR-CFA or SA-CF. The main difference is the "comet-flash" feature of the Whelen strobes. The FS draws 3 amps versus 2 amps for the Whelen, that seems to indicate maybe a little brighter flash, but the catalog doesn't list the "joules" produced.
Aeroflash also produces a line of less expensive strobes.
Eric
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Bruce Fenstermacher
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I have the Aeroflash units on my aircraft installed by person or persons unknown at some point in the aircrafts history. The Aeroflash units are not STC'd for the 170. They are OEM on later Cessna products. About a year ago I had no trouble overloading my local FSDO inspector with information available from Aeroflash in support of a 337 for the installation. He didn't give it much thought and approved it.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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AR Dave
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:06 pm
Messing with Eric!
ERIC, my strobe mounted atop my tail looks way cool!zero.one.victor wrote:I've seen stobes mounted atop the tail on 170's & 180's and IMHO it is not attractive.Eric
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zero.one.victor
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:11 am
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GAHorn
- Posts: 21291
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm
Wingtip strobes such as the Whelan so-called "piggyback" strobes meet all the requirements of an approved anti-collision light system. I don't agree they are insufficient, IF....Whelan's instructions are followed with regard to sequencing them. (Alternate flashing sequence doubles the light output of Whelans....while some AeroFlash units are quite weak in this regard.
The following article I wrote some time ago, and I'll share it again. (Too much info...I know.)
So, your old, red rotating beacon on the back of your fuselage has finally died and you found out that to simply install a newer technology strobe-light was cheaper and simple. Or so you thought.
Many older airplanes, certified before 1963, didn't require beacons (anticollision lighting) at all, but had one installed sometime later. A common location was the upper fuselage where it would interfere least with pilot night-vision.
Those old Grimes or Whelen (or similar) units drew a lot of amps to drive one or more incandescent lamps and a drive-motor. New units not only draw less power, but put out a lot more light as well, so it's a common switch many owners make, to the newer strobes.
Anticollision lights (on normal category airplanes) are governed by FAR 23, which in 1963 first stated:
"Sec. 23.1401
Anticollision light system.
(a) General. If certification for night operation is requested, the airplane must have an anticollision light system that--
(1) Consists of one or more approved anticollision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and
(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.
(b) Field of coverage. The system must consist of enough lights to illuminate the vital areas around the airplane, considering the physical configuration and flight characteristics of the airplane. The field of coverage must extend in each direction within at least 30 degrees above and 30 degrees below the horizontal plane of the airplane, except that there may be solid angles of obstructed visibility totaling not more than 0.5 steradians.
(c) Flashing characteristics. The arrangement of the system, that is, the number of light sources, beam width, speed of rotation, and other characteristics, must give an effective flash frequency of not less than 40, nor more than 100, cycles per minute. The effective flash frequency is the frequency at which the airplane's complete anticollision light system is observed from a distance, and applies to each sector of light including any overlaps that exist when the system consists of more than one light source. In overlaps, flash frequencies may exceed 100, but not 180, cycles per minute.
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be aviation red and must meet the requirements of Sec. 23.1397(a).
(e) Light intensity. The minimum light intensities in any vertical plane, measured with the red filter and expressed in terms of "effective" intensities, must meet the requirements of paragraph (f) of this section. (Complex formula deleted here-gh)
(f) Minimum effective intensities for anticollision lights. Each anticollision light effective intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values in the following table.
Angle above or below the horizontal plane: Effective intensity
(candles)
0? to 5? 100
5? to 10? 60
10? to 20? 20
20? to 30? 10
<end>
But as FAR's go, we all know that amendments and revisions take place, and over the years several changes have occurred. The latest FAR states:
Sec. 23.1401
Anticollision light system.
[(a) General. The airplane must have an anticollision light system that--]
(1) Consists of one or more approved anticollision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and
(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.
(b) Field of coverage. The system must consist of enough lights to illuminate the vital areas around the airplane, considering the physical configuration and flight characteristics of the airplane. The field of coverage must extend in each direction within at least 75? above and 75? below the horizontal plane of the airplane, except that there may be solid angles of obstructed visibility totaling not more than 0.5 steradians.
(c) Flashing characteristics. The arrangement of the system, that is, the number of light sources, beam width, speed of rotation, and other characteristics, must give an effective flash frequency of not less than 40, nor more than 100, cycles per minute. The effective flash frequency is the frequency at which the airplane's complete anticollision light system is observed from a distance, and applies to each sector of light including any overlaps that exist when the system consists of more than one light source. In overlaps, flash frequencies may exceed 100, but not 180, cycles per minute.
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be either aviation red or aviation white and must meet the applicable requirements of Sec. 23.1397.
(e) Light intensity. The minimum light intensities in any vertical plane, measured with the red filter (if used) and expressed in terms of "effective" intensities, must meet the requirements of paragraph (f) of this section. The following relation must be assumed:
Ie= ;
where:
Ie = effective intensity (candles).
I(t) = instantaneous intensity as a function of time.
t2-t1 = flash time interval (seconds).
Normally, the maximum value of effective intensity is obtained when t2 and t1 are chosen so that the effective intensity is equal to the instantaneous intensity at t2 and t1.
(f) Minimum effective intensities for anticollision lights. Each anticollision light effective intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values in the following table.
Angle above or below the horizontal plane: Effective intensity
(candles)
0? to 5? 400
5? to 10? 240
10? to 20? 80
20? to 30? 40
30? to 75? 20
Amdt. 23-49, Eff. 03/11/96"
SO,........
If you don't replace your original old red rotating beacon with the same type unit, and if you switch to a newer, possibly white or red/white strobe, ....you will have to comply with the newer FAR instead of the old "certifications basis" FAR.
This may require that you install more than one light,...you probably will have to install another unit in the belly as well, or go to wingtip strobes, or even 3-light systems.
For those with systems located on top of the vertical stabilizer, the owners are luckier. That location meets the requirements of both FAR's.
Of course, the C-170 upper rudder does not accomodate that position well. My own preference is the Whelan wingtip piggyback strobe system in alternating flashing sequence (and there's nothing wrong with adding the third rudder strobe if you wish, but it's not required in order to meet the rule.) One might also be aware that the AeroFlash units (with local power supplies) are not as bright or as durable as Whelan's and the inexpensive FS strobe is not PMA'd for the 170 (but may be installed if an approval basis is found such as field approval.)
The following article I wrote some time ago, and I'll share it again. (Too much info...I know.)
So, your old, red rotating beacon on the back of your fuselage has finally died and you found out that to simply install a newer technology strobe-light was cheaper and simple. Or so you thought.
Many older airplanes, certified before 1963, didn't require beacons (anticollision lighting) at all, but had one installed sometime later. A common location was the upper fuselage where it would interfere least with pilot night-vision.
Those old Grimes or Whelen (or similar) units drew a lot of amps to drive one or more incandescent lamps and a drive-motor. New units not only draw less power, but put out a lot more light as well, so it's a common switch many owners make, to the newer strobes.
Anticollision lights (on normal category airplanes) are governed by FAR 23, which in 1963 first stated:
"Sec. 23.1401
Anticollision light system.
(a) General. If certification for night operation is requested, the airplane must have an anticollision light system that--
(1) Consists of one or more approved anticollision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and
(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.
(b) Field of coverage. The system must consist of enough lights to illuminate the vital areas around the airplane, considering the physical configuration and flight characteristics of the airplane. The field of coverage must extend in each direction within at least 30 degrees above and 30 degrees below the horizontal plane of the airplane, except that there may be solid angles of obstructed visibility totaling not more than 0.5 steradians.
(c) Flashing characteristics. The arrangement of the system, that is, the number of light sources, beam width, speed of rotation, and other characteristics, must give an effective flash frequency of not less than 40, nor more than 100, cycles per minute. The effective flash frequency is the frequency at which the airplane's complete anticollision light system is observed from a distance, and applies to each sector of light including any overlaps that exist when the system consists of more than one light source. In overlaps, flash frequencies may exceed 100, but not 180, cycles per minute.
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be aviation red and must meet the requirements of Sec. 23.1397(a).
(e) Light intensity. The minimum light intensities in any vertical plane, measured with the red filter and expressed in terms of "effective" intensities, must meet the requirements of paragraph (f) of this section. (Complex formula deleted here-gh)
(f) Minimum effective intensities for anticollision lights. Each anticollision light effective intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values in the following table.
Angle above or below the horizontal plane: Effective intensity
(candles)
0? to 5? 100
5? to 10? 60
10? to 20? 20
20? to 30? 10
<end>
But as FAR's go, we all know that amendments and revisions take place, and over the years several changes have occurred. The latest FAR states:
Sec. 23.1401
Anticollision light system.
[(a) General. The airplane must have an anticollision light system that--]
(1) Consists of one or more approved anticollision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and
(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.
(b) Field of coverage. The system must consist of enough lights to illuminate the vital areas around the airplane, considering the physical configuration and flight characteristics of the airplane. The field of coverage must extend in each direction within at least 75? above and 75? below the horizontal plane of the airplane, except that there may be solid angles of obstructed visibility totaling not more than 0.5 steradians.
(c) Flashing characteristics. The arrangement of the system, that is, the number of light sources, beam width, speed of rotation, and other characteristics, must give an effective flash frequency of not less than 40, nor more than 100, cycles per minute. The effective flash frequency is the frequency at which the airplane's complete anticollision light system is observed from a distance, and applies to each sector of light including any overlaps that exist when the system consists of more than one light source. In overlaps, flash frequencies may exceed 100, but not 180, cycles per minute.
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be either aviation red or aviation white and must meet the applicable requirements of Sec. 23.1397.
(e) Light intensity. The minimum light intensities in any vertical plane, measured with the red filter (if used) and expressed in terms of "effective" intensities, must meet the requirements of paragraph (f) of this section. The following relation must be assumed:
Ie= ;
where:
Ie = effective intensity (candles).
I(t) = instantaneous intensity as a function of time.
t2-t1 = flash time interval (seconds).
Normally, the maximum value of effective intensity is obtained when t2 and t1 are chosen so that the effective intensity is equal to the instantaneous intensity at t2 and t1.
(f) Minimum effective intensities for anticollision lights. Each anticollision light effective intensity must equal or exceed the applicable values in the following table.
Angle above or below the horizontal plane: Effective intensity
(candles)
0? to 5? 400
5? to 10? 240
10? to 20? 80
20? to 30? 40
30? to 75? 20
Amdt. 23-49, Eff. 03/11/96"
SO,........
If you don't replace your original old red rotating beacon with the same type unit, and if you switch to a newer, possibly white or red/white strobe, ....you will have to comply with the newer FAR instead of the old "certifications basis" FAR.
This may require that you install more than one light,...you probably will have to install another unit in the belly as well, or go to wingtip strobes, or even 3-light systems.
For those with systems located on top of the vertical stabilizer, the owners are luckier. That location meets the requirements of both FAR's.
Of course, the C-170 upper rudder does not accomodate that position well. My own preference is the Whelan wingtip piggyback strobe system in alternating flashing sequence (and there's nothing wrong with adding the third rudder strobe if you wish, but it's not required in order to meet the rule.) One might also be aware that the AeroFlash units (with local power supplies) are not as bright or as durable as Whelan's and the inexpensive FS strobe is not PMA'd for the 170 (but may be installed if an approval basis is found such as field approval.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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mvivion
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:07 am
George's note pretty well summed it up. I would add that when I added wing tip strobes to my plane, my mechanic had me go out in the dark and look at numerous strobe light setups.
There was, and is, no doubt that the Whelan "comet flash" units produce WAY more light than anything else out there. That's what I installed. They are very bright, they flash alternately, which is even more eye catching, and yes, they cost more. Then again, you'll spend some time and money installing them, too, and the cost to install is probably pretty similar.
If you plan to install landing lights, consider installing a Precise Flight pulse light system, to flash your landing light in daylight. Another great visibility tool.
I agree, avoiding sharing sheetmetal is the main reason for this stuff, so in my book, it ought to be as effective as possible.
Mike Vivion
There was, and is, no doubt that the Whelan "comet flash" units produce WAY more light than anything else out there. That's what I installed. They are very bright, they flash alternately, which is even more eye catching, and yes, they cost more. Then again, you'll spend some time and money installing them, too, and the cost to install is probably pretty similar.
If you plan to install landing lights, consider installing a Precise Flight pulse light system, to flash your landing light in daylight. Another great visibility tool.
I agree, avoiding sharing sheetmetal is the main reason for this stuff, so in my book, it ought to be as effective as possible.
Mike Vivion
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Kyle Wolfe
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:30 am
We just put the Whelen strobes on - my Christmas present from Becky (gotta love that, eh?!) 
I can't believe how many comments I've received in the last few weeks about how great they look and how visible they are. Everyone at the airport notices. Can only expect that they'd do the same with other a/c in flight.
I like 'em!
I can't believe how many comments I've received in the last few weeks about how great they look and how visible they are. Everyone at the airport notices. Can only expect that they'd do the same with other a/c in flight.I like 'em!
Kyle
54 B N1932C
57 BMW Isetta
Best original 170B - Dearborn, MI 2005
54 B N1932C
57 BMW Isetta
Best original 170B - Dearborn, MI 2005
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AR Dave
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:06 pm
Well then I'll be having a Grimes Red Beacon (top of fuselage) and a White Strobe (belly of fuselage) sitting on my hanger floor pre paint job.
This is fun, what else can we strip? Don't you dare say what you're thinking ERIC! Wonder if I should leave the 2 eye bolts that are on top of the cabin? They are for lifting the plane when putting ski's on.
This is fun, what else can we strip? Don't you dare say what you're thinking ERIC! Wonder if I should leave the 2 eye bolts that are on top of the cabin? They are for lifting the plane when putting ski's on.
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