Cessna 170 landing with no engine attached

[pif_sonic]

I have read a lot of the threads made by the members in this forum. I read one that discussed the ability to land a Cessna 170 with no engine attached to the airframe. I do not remember all of the discussion (I can’t find the post again) but there were several arguments as whether it was possible or not. As I was reading the post, I remembered reading an NTSB report regarding this topic. It took me a little while to find it, I have attached a copy of the abbreviated NTSB report.






NTSB Identification: SEA04FA083A
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, May 16, 2004 in Tenino, WA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 9/13/2005
Aircraft: Cessna 170B, registration: N3510D
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Minor.

At 2038:10, a Cessna 170B and a Cessna 210J collided in-flight about 5 miles southeast of Tenino, Washington, at 3,000 feet mean sea level (about 2,700 feet above ground level). The Cessna 170B, flown by a private pilot, sole occupant of the airplane, was transponder equipped squawking code 1200 and emitting Mode C altitude information. The Cessna 170B had just descended from 7,500 feet msl and was leveling off at 3,000 feet on a magnetic heading of 322 degrees when the collision occurred. The pilot of the Cessna 170B, whose engine was separated from the airplane as a result of the collision, was able to maintain control of the airplane and succeeded in making a forced landing to an open field. The pilot of the Cessna 210J, also the sole occupant, was not emitting a transponder code, and therefore no altitude or other identifying information was available. However, a radar target was observed to the left and on a collision course with the Cessna 170B, and is assumed to have been the Cessna 210J; there were no other aircraft observed in the immediate vicinity. At 2036:11, the aircraft were approximately 3 1/2 nautical miles apart, the Cessna 210J oriented on a heading of north, while the Cessna 170B was on a magnetic heading of 309 degrees. At 2036:34, both aircraft were still on their respective headings, however, their lateral separation had diminished by 3/4 of a mile; the airplanes were now 2 3/4 miles apart. At 2036:58, lateral separation was reduced by 1/2 mile to 2 1/4 miles, and at 2037:22 lateral separation was further reduced to 1 1/4 miles. At 0337:46, 24 seconds prior to the collision, radar data indicates the aircraft were separated by a lateral distance of approximately 3,300 feet. Based on scratch marks and paint transfer signatures observed on both aircraft, as well as an estimated speed of the overtaking Cessna 210J being 150 knots and the GPS readout speed of the Cessna 170B of 113 knots, calculations revealed a closure speed of 41 knots, and a collision angle of 8 degrees. A calculated convergence angle of 22 degrees was determined for the Cessna 210J and 150 degrees for the Cessna 170B. It was concluded that based on the Cessna 210J's convergence angle and pilot's unobstructed forward field of vision, the Cessna 210J pilot should have been able to detect the presence of the Cessna 170B using normal visual scanning procedures consistent with visual flight rule (VFR) operations.

[N170BP]

I helped recover the accident aircraft. The engine was 500+ yards
away from the rest of the airplane.

I have since heard of another 170 that landed without an engine
at Felts Field near Spokane, Washington State (this reportedly happened
years ago). It apparently shucked a blade in flight, and the resulting
imbalance tore the FWF off of the airplane (it landed safely).

It's nice to know our 170s will fly/land with nothing FWF!

[MoonlightVFR]

Amazing that it was possible to land w/o Engine

Even more impressive that a member participated in recovery of the 170.

This senario has always played in my mind every time I cranked the 170. Preflight looking for a nick in prop that could lead to in flight blade sep and engine yank out before you can pull power back on throttle.

I was taught with a lot of caution on the part of instructors & mechanics to the extent that I will not crank engine w/o seat belts being fastened.

Am I a little excessive on this matter?


It sounds like there are two 170 pilots that could be interviewed in the future. This would be some serious hanger flying.

[bsdunek]

I too am suprised that a 170 or any other similar light plane could be flown and land with no engine. One might keep the nose down with some speed, but at slower speeds the elevators would lose authority and the plane would stall. Perhaps the secret is to keep the speed up and make a wheel landing. In any case the pilot seat might need cleaning.
I recall an old Smilin' Jack comic book I had as a kid. Jack and Downwind were doing some kind of observation flight in a Cub, and the bad guys (maybe Germans or Japanese - this was right after WWII) shot the engine off. Downwind crawled out and hung on to the remaining engine mounts to balance the Cub and Jack made a good landing (didn't he always?). The only problem was Downwind's pants caught on a barb wire fence on approach and were torn. Well, it was a comic book!

[Mike Smith]

I wrote about an incident (on this website) that happened back around 1990-2 when a C-172 was T-boned at the firewall by a T-38 in San Antonio, TX. The C-172 landed by pushing the yoke full forward and taking the glide that resulted. The T-38 lost it's verticle stab and the pilots successfully ejected when the aircraft went out of control. Neither crew was at fault ... it just so happened to be one of those days where the sky wasn't that big. Look up the full story in the forum if you're interested.

[N3510D]

Hi guys,

I am the pilot of the 170B in question. The plane held up well and I owe my life in part to the construction of the 170. Much of my left wing was ripped apart, no ailerons or flaps on that side. The wing was tucked down by about 10 to 15 degrees. The wing strut was nearly severed. The engine was completely separated and landed (according to the NTSB factual) about a half mile from my landing site. The windscreen and some of the instrument panel were ripped away during the impact as well. Happy to hangar fly about it so as to help anyone in the future with aft CG flying experiences but I want to be sensitive to all those involved as it was simply a tragic accident. I've continued to fly, getting my instrument and commercial and hope to someday fly a 170 of my own again.

[hilltop170]

WOW!

How did the plane behave after the engine came off? What level of control did you have? Were you able to fly to a chosen landing spot or were you just along for the ride down and lucked-out with the landing?

We would all be extremely interested in any more info you might share as far as flying the plane with no engine and how it handled.

Thanks for sharing!

[N3510D]

Right after impact, the plane was pitching up and slowing down really fast. I had enough elevator control at that point to put the nose down to keep speed up. Almost immediately I had to push the elevator all the way forward in order to do this. The plane then entered an uncommanded hard left turn which I was able to slow with full right aileron (only had one aileron at this point). I tested rudder authority and it was enough to stop the turn but I didn't want to be cross-controlled and enter a spin so I let the plane spiral to the left. The descent rate was pretty high with the nose pointing down maybe 20+ degrees in order to keep the speed constant and high enough to maintain control (didn't have an airspeed indicator anymore, so guessed based on the sound of the wind coming through the window. Fortunately there was a field next to a house fairly close by and I was able to stop the turn and line up for the field near the bottom of the descent (about one full 360 degree turn took me from 3,000 feet to the surface). Before I lined up to land in the field I used the rudder to stop the turn and on "short final" added a little bit of flap. I was holding onto the flap lever because it seemed to give me some increased pitch control. The landing wasn't pretty. From what I understand (since I don't remember a whole lot near the end) was that there were actually a set of small power lines that I clipped just as I entered the field. This rapidly slowed the plane down and pitched it forward as the plane kind of plopped onto the field and flipped over on its back. The reports of using an autopilot were inaccurate. The power line gave way so it was like an arresting hook. In hindsight, this might have really helped slow things down (in addition to the very aft CG lowering my stall speed quite a bit). I was able to jump out of the plane and walk away. The neighbors next door were very kind and took care of me from there.

[Brad Brady]

WOW!!! That is one of the coolest stories I have ever read....I thank God it was you and not me...Brad

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

WOW is right. I'm always amazed at stories of this nature. I'm amazed that you had the presence of mind to think about a cross control spin. I'd have been standing on that rudder.

I find it a bit humorus that you would even mention the landing not being pretty. Remember any landing you can walk away from is a good one.

Thanks for sharing the story. I think it drives one message home and we have all heard it before. What ever happens don't give up flying the aircraft all the way to the ground.

[N3510D]

Exactly. Keep cool, fly the airplane, or whatever is left.

[dutch1948]

And I was worried about engine failure! You did a great job landing your plane!