Reiff or Tannis?

[flat country pilot]

I am planning on installing an engine heater soon. Wanted a Reiff, now a Tannis. I have read both websites and understand what each claims to be the best.

What does the general 170 population have and why?

Has any one had trouble with either system? Did they stand behind their product?

Bill

[tshort]

I have the Reiff system on the lycoming in my 172 and it is great. I keep cowl plugs in and the cowl covered and the entire engine compartment is 80+F on a sub 20 winter day. It was easy to install and I really like the idea of heating the base of the cylinder with a band rather than the Tanis method.
I haven't bought one for the 170 yet because we are using a forced air electric heater from Menards plus some metal dryer duct - total 20 bucks - which seems to do a great job.

No more winter talk! We still have a few good months of weather left :D:D

Thomas

[GAHorn]

Yep, I personally prefer a hot-air supply, applied several hours before flight, rather than small heating elements or pads. The hot air warms the entire engine, oil system, carburetor, etc., and makes everything think it's summer. Using the electric Tanis/Reiff systems makes me think of using a soldering iron on my wrists hoping my body will eventually absorb enough heat to get over the chills. Just my own quirky thoughts.

[tshort]

With the Reiff system on for 8+ hours and a blanket on the cowl everything is warm - battery, accessories, etc - all the same temp. That's what I like about the cylinder bands in addition to the oil sump heater.
There are definitely two schools of thought on leaving it plugged in all the time ... suffice it to say I do with no adverse effects. The entire engine compartment stays 80+F all the time and ready to go.

Thomas

[N171Q]

Snow already on the mountains in Anchorage...

We put the Reiff on my dad's tri-pacer this last winter. Worked great down to negative temps and I think cost a bit less than the Tanis system.

We leave it plugged in all the time (electric included with the tie-down) and unscrew the oil dipstick to try and vent the moisture.

[GAHorn]

With the Reiff system on for 8+ hours and a blanket on the cowl everything is warm - battery, accessories, etc - all the same temp. That's what I like about the cylinder bands in addition to the oil sump heater.
There are definitely two schools of thought on leaving it plugged in all the time ... suffice it to say I do with no adverse effects. The entire engine compartment stays 80+F all the time and ready to go.

Thomas

...We leave it plugged in all the time (electric included with the tie-down) and unscrew the oil dipstick to try and vent the moisture.

You might be interested to know that TCM cautions against this practice. See the MX Library with regard to TCM SB 03-1, Cold WX Operation, where it states, "Do not leave an engine-mounted pre-heater system on for more than twenty- four hours prior to flight.
Continuous operation of engine-mounted preheater systems may result in aggressive corrosive attack internal to the engine."

(Of course, if you "unscrew" your dipstick, what TCM says may be moot.)

[buchanan]

I have the Reiff on my “B”. We are in Galena AK, the average temperature last Jan was –22. You can buy just the pan heater or the pan and cylinder base heater. The cylinder base heaters are simply a large hose clamp with a heat trace (tape) silicone’d to it. This system really doesn’t draw much juice. You need a GOOD engine cover to keep whatever heat you are generating close to the engine. We don’t fly unless absolutely necessary (we are a remote village) when it is colder than –20 and recreationally colder than –10 . I don’t know much about Tannis but I know they are used a lot, maybe more than Reiff, up here.

Regards, Buck

[jrenwick]

I have a Reiff heater system on my 170. I started leaving it on full-time last winter, and eventually got a load of rust clogging my Oberg oil screen to the point that the chip detector light came on. That had never happened before. I changed the oil right away, stopped using the heater, and the screen has been clean ever since. I've since invested in a heated hangar, so I won't be doing this experiment again. From my own experience, I think what George (and TCM) said above is quite correct.

Best Regards,

John

[flat country pilot]

What to do? This is why I am thinking about this now and not waiting until October, when I want heat.

My first choice is 55 to 65 F all year long, low humidity. Don’t have that.

Forced air heat is probably the best since Uncle Sam uses it. The Minot Air Force Base uses forced air for the B-52s and they fly “weather” or not, -50 F, -60 F.

Ok, the best would be a heated hangar. I am lucky to have a hangar and won’t have heat in it this year and probably not next. Plus the hangar is hard to take with me for heat in other locations. But assuming a heated hangar is the best option, this may prove that forced air is the best option?

I have read the old post from 2005 and some one talked about a 1500 watt milk house heater. I don’t have a lot of confidence in these here in ND but may try it. 2500 watts at 0 F might work, but that should be 240 volts if left on for 4 to 6 hours.

The biggest downfalls of forced air for me, is the lack of a line crew to go out at 3 am and start the preheating. The other is mobility. But, I think I will look and see what is available for forced air heaters and ducting. Maybe I can put something together for less than $100.

Now I am thinking in print, so bear with me. At 0 F, 2500 watts, how long does it take to uncongeal oil? 20w-50.

Maybe a Red Dragon heater is an option. Anyone out there using one? If I put fire under the engine compartment, I feel like I would have to baby sit it.

So I come back to the engine mounted heater. I will not leave one on all the time. If flying the next day I would plug it in the night before and by morning the engine compartment should be warm, with a blanket. Then one must fly to get the moisture out of the oil.

Most planes around here have a Tannis heater. I think I like the Reiff better. They are both good but Reiff has a two year warranty, no questions asked.

Bill

[tshort]

I know Continental says bad idea, but here is my .02
I usually fly weekly if not more. If I know it's going to be a long time, I do not leave it plugged in.
I think the problem arises when you have a heating element that keeps part of the engine warm with another part not heated - the cool area is a spot for condensation. However, when the cowl is covered with a blanket and I have my Reiff on and the entire environment under the cowl is 80+F, how is that REALLY any different than me coming back from flying now and putting the airplane / engine back into an 80+F hangar?

Stu leaves his forced air heater on all the time. It is very simple, does not blow lots of air but will keep the engine compartment very warm. I'll post some pics when I get a chance.

T.

[jrenwick]

I have a Reiff heater system on my 170. I started leaving it on full-time last winter, and eventually got a load of rust clogging my Oberg oil screen to the point that the chip detector light came on. . . .

I should have mentioned that during this period the engine was covered tightly with a Kenon cover that keeps everything forward of the firewall toasty-warm, and I was flying at least once a week.

This was against Reiff's recommendation, which is to start preheating at most 12 hours before you're going to fly. I did it because of experience with a local flying club that leaves their Lycoming-powered Cessnas (172, 182RG) plugged in full time and have done so for at least 20 years now without ill effect. It's an active club, but in the winter especially, the aircraft can sit idle for a few days.

I'm not sure what to think about all this. Maybe it's a difference between Lycoming and Continental engines? If so, I can't think what it would be.

Best Regards,

John

[Jr.CubBuilder]

Maybe a Red Dragon heater is an option. Anyone out there using one? If I put fire under the engine compartment, I feel like I would have to baby sit it.


Bill

I use a Red Dragon. It works fine, but I wouldn't leave it unattended. I don't have any desire to go flying when it's colder than 10F. If it's 20F on up to about 35F I let it run with a blanket over the cowl for about 30 minutes while take my time preflighting. Between 10F and 20F I give it another 20 minutes or so while I read a book in the car or something. Below 10F I prefer to hide in the shop and day-dream about flying.

[GAHorn]

Using combustion, forced-air heaters requires constant attendance, in my opinion, for safety reasons. Additonally, combustion heaters produce humidity and I prefer to have a dryer heater than that (although in some out-of-the-way/boondocks/outback places in the world that is the only option.)
If an electric, forced-air heater setup can be devised, and placed on a timer (such as sold by many home-depot type stores), then perhaps it can be set up, then timed to start heating a few hours before you're planning to arrive...or the lineboy can be called and told to plug it in at a certain time.
F.E. Potts is an Alaskan "bush" pilot of some renown, and he is also an accomplished author. While I personally have only had to deal with Arctic conditons a couple of times,... he lives/works/writes/flies up there and has a few opinions on this subject.
His article on preheat can be found at:
http://www.fepco.com/BF.chapter12.html

[mit]

I use car interior warmer Little buddy. No stc needed. no paper work

works fine down to as cold as you want to fly. and its a whole lot cheaper.

[rupertjl]

I use a a little ready heater, run off propane with an electric fan to force the air out. I bought 6 foot of ducting the size of the heater and then ran a "y" with some dryer hose to put in the engine compartment...I have a litte 175 watt power inverter that I run an extension cord from my Jeep to the heater and cover the cowl...30 minutes later I have a preheated engine...I use my propane tank from the grill (since I don't do much BBQ's during the winter) and I think the whole cost of the set up was around $150. I can't remember off hand but the heater is somewhere around 75k BTU.

v/r,
Jud