Interior Restoration/Upgrade

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:22 pm

I've done a bunch of painting and it's a big big job. Plus you need very good equipment. Regarding the basecoat/clearcoat systems I think they are great for cars but as it was mentioned they are very difficult to touch up. Basically you need to paint to panel lines. Also there is a very short window between the basecoat and clearcoat or else it will not bond together. That could be a problem for amature painters unless the plane is apart and you could do pieces.

18A was painted in Montana in 1991 by a pro shop after the owner stripped the plane himself to save money. They used PPG DAU Deltron, a one step two part poly of very high quality. It is the smoothest paint job I've seen in a long time and still very glossy after 10 plus years. I was very happy to find a plane that I wouldn't have to paint. With the engine conversion I have a cowling to paint and am also going to paint all the door jambs airframe and doors, instrument panel and glare shield, opening windows, and some other interior bulkheads as well as all the removable trim pieces on the interior. So I will have a bit of painting going on next month. This is what's slowing down the conversion Eric.

PPG as with most paint manufacturers have changed their formulas due to EPA and other stupid regulations. They say their DCC line is comparable to the DAR and that's what I'm going to use. The color match will be fine because it's all to panel lines. I have to paint the panel where I removed the two large venturies also. The previous owner who stripped the plane got stripper on the edges of the windshield so I'm replacing that also. For those of you thinking of a new paint job using a shop or doing it yourself here's my two cents:

Use a quality two part single stage poly, PPG DCC, Imron or.. any poly of good reputation. The closer to 50-50 mix of hardener to paint the better is what I was told once. For PPG DP40 is a great epoxy primer. You also need to acid etch and alodine.

Consider replacing all the glass before painting. I did not do this on my A Model in 1975 and was surprised at how terrible the glass looked after a beautiful Imron paint job. If you cut your own side windows use cast plex not extruded. (another story)

Consider painting all the door jambs and window frames so that there is no ugly left. The ultimate is to paint with the inspection covers off also with protection to keep from overspraying to the inside.

I would look at the work of any shop before I commit to spending a lot of money. You would be surprised at the large quality difference for sometimes little difference in money.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:32 pm

David Laseter wrote:Mike - there your are!
How's things in Cabot? Found out my wifes cousin's live in Cabot now and they want us to come visit. He said they live right by an airstrip.
I've circled Gray's Aircraft Refinishing 800-322-4729 Ad in the Fly-Low paper and will be calling him. I appreciate the recommendations.
Find an excuse to fly to Russellville and visit us. We can jump over to Petit Jean which I can see from the Hangar. Either way I'll be calling one day, keep that paint job waxed.

Wa4jr - I'm sooooooooo tempted to paint it myself. No guts and no experience, but I know I could and I really want too. Hey, you come visit also! Bring you're paint brush with you? Thanks for the headsup!

Dave

Back before the earth cooled when I was a first officer at a commuter, I tried my hand at painting a friends car. (Hey. I was young and stupid, but I wasn't so stupid as to try to paint my car!)

I found out I couldn't spray paint on a horizontal surface worth a dam, so we removed the hood to paint it vertically.
Anyway, after we hung the hood from clothes hanger wire from a tree limb and started spraying it, the wind began to blow. The added stress straightened the clothes hangar hooks, and the wet-painted hood dropped into the freshly mown grass. This added a bit more time to the project, using tweezers and needle-nose pliers to remove each blade of grass.
In order to get rid of all the grass-blade marks in the soft paint we decided to paint it again....only heavier this time....believing this would cover up the defects. It ended up with long "icicles" of paint hanging from the leading edge of the hood. Sorta resembled one of those hedgerow adaptations to a D-Day tank.
We were fast learners though. We decided to dispense with the idea of spray painting the rest of that car. Instead, we went straight into the pour-and-wipe method. This consisted of taking a couple gallon pails of paint and simply pouring it onto the roof and trunk and using the air-gun to blow the puddles all around until it covered the car, and then using paper towels to wipe the long drips from the lower edges of the fenders and doorsills before they hardened.
It took 4 days for the paint to lose it's tackiness and dry, but the result was spectacular. (And it had the added feature of making the car aerodynamically smoother, filling and sealing up the drain gutters around the roof and trunk-lid. It was hard to open the first time, but that trunk never leaked water again!) The paint was so thick it hid all the small scratches and poor body-putty repairs we'd not properly sanded or blended. Even the right-rear lower fender, which had a 10" hole rusted through it behind the wheel, and which we'd filled with three red shop-rags dredged through the Bondo and wadded up and stuffed into the hole, then smoothed over with more Bondo,....completely disappeared! You couldn't tell!
In the year 3232 when archeologists dig that car up out of the tar-pit they'll fascinate at the high-technology of the 1967 Toyota Corona rear fenders that can withstand 1300 years of corrosion. "Man" they'll say, "they don't build 'em like that anymore.!"

wa4jr · Post by **wa4jr** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:32 pm

I decided to learn to paint after I paid a shop $900 to paint my Triumph Spitfire while I was in college. I had to return it several times to get them to smooth out several areas. I learned that painting is hard only if you rush and don't have the right tools. I bought high-line gun from Sears, got a 5HP compressor and 60 gallon tank...filers and regulators, and then took the plunge with my 1960 MGA. Two part PPG DAU. I had to just sit with my mouth open for days after that job. I COULD NOT believe the quality of the finish...from me...a first timer. So then I wend on a few years later to do my 1975 MGB, but made the mistake of going with PPG DAB and clear coat. MUCH more work. The job looked nice though, until it needed spot repair and then the matching of the clear coat was a night mare.

I learned about the importance of good tools when my dad and I decided to paint the top of the wings on his C-150 where fuel had deteriorated the surface. Use Randolph enamel and put it on with a cheap 1/2HP sears compressor with a bleeder gun. Hose heated up at the compressor and burst sending a big splurge of paint onto the wing. Afer all was said and done, we came out to the tie down several weeks later wondering who had thrown all the newspaper out around the plane. As we got closer, the newspaper was actually the paint that had come off the wing in big sheets when the wind blew! That was our last paint job together. Dad refused to try again, but of course being a cheapskate and persistant, I managed to learn how to paint....and if I botch it up....I know where the complain department is.

David Laseter · Post by **David Laseter** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:56 pm

MMMMM had another bid come in today, $3000 for a paint job.
Check out this website and see if any red flags pop up concerning paint process and etc............. -

http://mena-ark.com/airport/Services/services.html

AOG Paint Services = No reply yet
Rose Aircraft Inc. = $7640
Mena Aircraft Interiors = $5800
D & T Aircraft Painting = $3000

Havn't got a hold of Don Gray yet.

Since the wings have been reskinned and are bare metal, can I at least, strip the fuselage and buff the scratches out of all the windows & landing light.
Surely I can do that much?

Dave

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:55 pm

You can do all, or any part of the work yourself, according to the FAR's. But the chemical stripper is dangerous (cancerous) stuff to work with, and it's an environmental hazard. Don't get caught doing this without a permit. The fines will eat up your kid's college tuition and take the '60 'vette title away from you!
If your glass is in trouble, now's the time to replace it. You likely will be disappointed after new paint with scratchy or dim glass, no matter how much you polish it.
Goodner Bros. were the original, "old-line", painters in Mena. They'd been there for 20-30 years and originated the concept of an "Earl Schieb" paint-job for airplanes. Their quality was ho-hum for many years but the price down-right cheap. Quality and price had gone up in the last 10 years according to some (although I never saw much change except in design, layout, and color improvements. The shortcuts were still taken with non-removal of fairings/covers before paint and overspray problems.) It looks like AOG is one of the Goodner relatives or a company name-change. I've not seen any of their work since the last 5 years, but the last job they did for the state of Texas looked better than previous work. Needless to say, to get the gov't job they were the low-bidders. (And also, needless to say, you get what you pay for.)

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:54 pm

I can't remember at the moment where I ordered it, but found the ad in TAP for a new landing light lense, it was a resonable price. Very easy job replacing it, except some screws can be difficult to get out.

Curtis Brown · Post by **Curtis Brown** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 5:45 pm

I am in need of a new paint job also. I am located in North Mississippi and looking for a good paint shop near by. I have heard about Mena, Ark. and a place in Longview, Tx. I would be interested to know what quality of work they do. I still have a few little things to tend to first. Like a small split in the lower rudder and I know a fellow in Alabama that builds cessna control surfaces. He built a flap for me and a tail for a friend's 195. Does good work. Next I need to deciding what to do about the cowling closures. I have them drilled and pinned now. Of course that tend to rub the paint off. I just find it difficult to pay the price for three new ones. I also believe I will do new glass. It would be convenient to find a shop to do it all.

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 8:03 pm

I'll second that. Up here in the Northeast prices for everything are high. I have two quotes so far for exterior paint: $7,800 & $10,000

The prices out west and down south seem more reasonable. I'd be interested in hearing of good paint shops with fair prices. I'll travel if the price and quality are right.

David Laseter · Post by **David Laseter** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:28 am

So when we find this quality paint shop, we need to talk to them about a group discount rate! And get them to sponser / advertize in our C170 Club Directory. I'm running with a vision now!

My glass is good but I want to get a scratch removal polisher kit and have everything perfect when restored. Buying a new landing lense sounds like a good way to go though, years of glacier silt has dulled the inside. And some gouges from the alder limbs are pretty deep.

What I've got to find is a post 53 cowling for my 55 B. HELP

Meanwhile I'll be visiting every paint shop I can find in the South.
Dave

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:45 am

Curtis

You can buy the whole cowl latch in pieces for half the cost of the assembly. But it gets even better. Not all the parts wear out. I replaced the worn parts in one of mine for about $40. When finished it worked as new with no need to pin it. Univair and Spruce both supply the parts.

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 2:13 pm

David Laseter wrote: So when we find this quality paint shop, we need to talk to them about a group discount rate! And get them to sponser / advertize in our C170 Club Directory. I'm running with a vision now!

My glass is good but I want to get a scratch removal polisher kit and have everything perfect when restored. Buying a new landing lense sounds like a good way to go though, years of glacier silt has dulled the inside. And some gouges from the alder limbs are pretty deep.

What I've got to find is a post 53 cowling for my 55 B. HELP

Meanwhile I'll be visiting every paint shop I can find in the South.
Dave

Novus has #1 which is great for cleaning and protection. #2 works well on small scratches and when something like a cover starts to dull an area. #3 will take care of a scratch, but it does take a lot of elbow work.

Curtis Brown · Post by **Curtis Brown** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:16 pm

Dave,
Thanks, I will look into!

David Laseter · Post by **David Laseter** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:43 pm

Novus #2 sounds about right!

Joe, I just saw where 3 pilots crashed near Mena. One of them was a 40yr old from St Mary's Alaska, down there buying a plane. They crashed while on a pre-buy flight. The Alaskan pilot fly's in the worst flying conditions in the world (he was a Western AK, Commercial pilot) then crashes at 2400 ft in Arkansas. He leaves a wife & 3 children.

Keeps a new paint job in perspective!

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:12 pm

Dave, not sure why so many planes go down related to Mena, but there have been a lot over the years. One theory is that if there is anything wrong after work has been done, there are not many emergeny landing sites around there. It sure keeps Mom and Dad worked up because the news people sensationalize any plane accident they can get their hands on. Rich Mountain, close to Ft Smith claims a lot of airplanes for some reason also. It is unblievable that an Alaskan pilot could fly in those conditions at home, and then have that happen in Arkansas. There have been people in the Dallas area that do not take their planes to Mena for service because of so many people going down after picking the plane up. The worry was that there was something wrong with whichever shop that did the work.

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:05 am

I've flown in/out of Mena many times over the years. I've always found the weather and the winds tricky there. The hills run in east/west ridges, yet the prevailing winds are from the southeast. This causes plenty of low-level turbulence and wind shear on clear days. The fact that the area is known as "thunderstorm alley" doesn't help either.
Although I've never been impressed with much of the maintenance work performed there by the various shops (although a couple of the engine shops seem to do good work), I've not noticed any accident reports there that have shown any trend towards maintenance errors being the cause of any accidents. So, I don't think there's any validity to such rumors.