170 as first plane ?

[BobK]

Hello,

Ive been lurking here for several weeks, trying to learn all I can about 170's and how they compare to other planes. I am a student pilot with only a couple of logged hours, and want to find my own plane to learn in this summer. After looking at Pacers, 170's, 172's, 150's, etc, Im pretty much convinced that a 170B is the way to go. (The B model for the flaps and the larger heater) Of course, I base this reasoning just on what Ive read here in the forums... So please correct me if Im off base here. ':D'


My problem is that I dont know anyone with a 170. Ive spent lots of time with my buddy who got his ticket last summer and bought a Supercub, but Id rather have 4 seats instead of the extreme short-field stuff. I like the taildragger for being able to do some off-airport landings if wanted. Id like to be able to get in and out of a sandbar or beach here and there on a nice summer day. Id also like to be able to get onto lakes in the winter on skis at some point.

Is there anyone in the Anchorage (Lake Hood, Merrill, Birchwood, ANC) area who would be open to letting me take a closer look at their 170, or perhaps taking me up for a quick spin ? (I'll buy gas !) Being 6'4" I have a helluva time getting in and out of Cubs, and want to see how I would fit in the 170, and just get a feel for how they fly.

Since Im on a roll here, I'll throw out a couple more questions...
How much strip does a reasonably loaded 170 need to get in/out on ?
What are the typical annual inspection costs for the 170 ?
Any recommended Mechanics in Anchorage for 170's ?
Most wanted/desired modifications to the fairly low-cost 170's ? (<$40k - No 180hp or C/S props for my first bird...)

Thats about all I can think of now... Please interject anything you feel will help !

Thank you very much !!!

Bob K.
Anchorage, AK

[jrenwick]

Hi Bob,

You're doing the right thing, because the best way to make up your mind is to get to know some people near you who fly 170s.

A 170 is a somewhat more challenging airplane to learn in than the typical Piper Warrior or Cessna 152/172 that are used for trainers in the lower 48; but there's no reason a good, experienced tailwheel instructor can't get a new pilot going in a 170. In Alaska especially, there are good reasons to go straight for the tailwheel types.

As to your questions:
1. for runway length information, here's the performance chart from an 1956 C170 owner's manual:

2. I can't tell you what annual inspections might cost you, except that they should be about the same as any four-place, fixed-gear aircraft. It all depends on who does it, how much they let you do, and what needs to be fixed. Before you buy, get to know an IA mechanic who can maintain your airplane, and you may get some of these questions answered. That said, in the lower 48 I would probably expect anywhere between $500 and $1000 for an inspection, plus what ever work needs to be done on the aircraft.
3. You'll find George's excellent list of recommended modifications here (at the top of the "The Hangar" section of this forum):
http://cessna170.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1969

Best of luck!

[spiro]

call me, I'm the only one in the phonebook (or directory). I talk better than I type. When I dig the 170A out we can go for a ride.

- paul

[Jr.CubBuilder]

Bob, a 170B has been my first airplane I don't regret it a bit. I origonly wanted a J3 or PA11 but they have become so trendy that they aren't really affordable unless you happen on a deal. The other thing that started bothering me about either of those was the lack of space, so I ended up looking at a 170 and fell in love with the plane. The 170s have about the shortest AD list of any planes out there, great visibility over the nose, and after getting my tailwheel endorsement I just had to have a taildragger.

That said though, I recommend looking around the local area and buy the cleanest plane in your price range that fits your parameters and that you will like owning. The Piper Tri-pacer is a great plane, but if the sight of it makes you vomit every time you look at it......you wont enjoy owning one. Also consider what kind of flying you are going to do with it. A friend of mine is going through the same thing he seems to be setting his sights on a big engine Maule, but I think if he does he'll regret it, he can't afford $100 and hour in fuel costs, or the high insurance. If he does get one I have a hunch it will sit on the ramp for a couple years and rot till he gives up on flying because it costs to much and he's so rusty when he takes to the air that he scares himself every time he flies. A friend of mine has a Stinson and that looks like a real nice plane also for about the same money. That's all just food for thought.

[ALASKA99762]

As a new pilot and first time plane owner, I haven't had one moment of regret about my 54B. The one regret I do have, is not finding this association prior to the purchase. I'm confident it would have saved me a good bit of money and a lot of time and frustration. My advice is to spend many hours at this sight and have a real good idea of what youre looking for and get a VERY thorough pre puchase/ANNUAL inspection. And if any work is needed let the seller pay to have it done and buy at the agreed apon price. The work I had done ended up costing almost double the estimated price and taking three times longer. Good luck... its a wonderful airplane and everywhere you go, people will have a fond 170 story.

[scsmith42]

Bob, I'm in a situation somewhat similar to yours, and recently purchased a 170B after querying many pilots that I respect regarding the best "starter" plane for me that had good cross country performance.

From what I've been told, I don't think that you'll regret buying a 170. Very good advice from others here as well - especially the comment regarding having a thorough pre-purchase inspection done. When I purchased my plane, as far as I was concerned if the seller would not let my mechanic do the pre-purchase inspection, it was a deal-breaker.

Best of success to you.

Scott

[yukontools]

Bob- I am in Galena, Alaska and own a 52B but I have the c/s and a 180. I am a low time pilot and learned in a Cub of my fathers. I am 6'3" 230 lbs and get in and out of the 170 with ease. In the winter it is a little cumbersome if one of my buddies is similiar in size in the co-pilot seat but I just move him back in his seaat after we take off. I think the visibility while taxing the 170 is way better than in a Cub. In the summer I have tundra's on and still enjoy the visibility. If you buy locally the nice thing is you may be able to use the same mechanic. When you buy a new plane and use a mechanic for first time it is expensive. Call me if you have questions. Look for me in http://www.switchboard.com in Galena or pm me.
Jon Buchanan

[flat country pilot]

In the winter it is a little cumbersome if one of my buddies is similiar in size in the co-pilot seat but I just move him back in his seaat after we take off.

I'm 5' 10" but have a few friends that take up cabin space. If you are secure in your manhood, have them put their arm around you. Chances are the pilot is not using the back of the seat.

Bill

[bentley]

Well you will certainly receive positive response regarding the C170A/B from this site however there are some limitations to consider with this aircraft. In the stock configuration it is (in my opinion only) a rather marginal performer as a back country machine in even moderate density altitudes. Oh you can get IN to any strip no problem but getting out will get interesting with a moderate load and ANY obstacles. The addition of larger wheels, bigger engine, C/S prop, STOL kits and the like apparently increase it's utility greatly but the expense of these mods sometimes makes the switch to C180 more practical. My 170B is a great local hop cruiser (at low altutudes), an adequte X-country machine as long as you are not in a hurry, and will work the back country strips provided STRICT attention is paid to weight and OAT.

[blueldr]

If the airplane is kept light with no excess equipment, (Gyros? Do you fly instruments?) and it is equipped with a thin prop, (Do you fly long cross country trips?), I can't think of any better personal (Non Commercial) airplane for Alaska.

Direct operating and maintenance costs are about as low as you can find.
It's basic simplicity makes it ideal for the non professional pilot owner.
The stock C-145/O-300 engine is the most bullet proof and reliable aircraft engine ever built.

A C-170B is probably the best flying airplane Cessna ever built. I've been flying for over sixty four years and I've never flown any airplane that handled better than a Cessna C-170B.

[BobK]

A big thanks to everyone who has offered words of encouragement !!!

I've got several more weeks of studying to do here on the site, as Im in no hurry to purchase right away. Ideally Id like to find something in the spring and get my license over the summer/fall.

Spiro - Thanks, I'll definately give you a call after the holiday !

I do realize that a 170 cant come close to what a Cub will do in the backcountry, even with all the goodies. I'd like to run 26"+ tires on whatever I end up getting, but thats not a deal breaker. I would like to have enough instruments to get my instrument rating at some point, but again that isnt a deal breaker.

Thanks again, and I'll continue to lurk while searching for the perfect bird !

Hasta ~

Bob K

[mit]

My first Airplane was a 1948 170. I think I had about 150 hours when I got it. I flew it about 500 hours over ten years. I had no tail wheel time before that and took no tail wheel instruction prior to flying it. Trained myself on skis in it. So I think they are a great first plane. so I bought one for my second plane. and still have it That was 26 years ago. Man time flys....... Happy New Year

[3958v]

Like Tim my first plane was a 48 170. I have had it for 13 years and have no plans to "down grade" in the future so I hope to keep it. All 170s are some of the best buys in aviation today. Bill K

[cfiatzph]

The 170 is a good aircraft. It has very few ADs and those that are recurring are essentially the carb (two vs one piece venturi) or the seat tracks which is extended to 1000 hours I believe with new seat tracks. I don't believe it has a single airframe AD which says something about it integrity. The 170 would be almost a perfect aircraft with one of the increase hp mods and constant speed prop mods. 180-200-210-220 with a constant speed would be about all you would need, your to good land in 500 feet and probably get off in 500 feet. I can get off light in 500 feet by myself with full fuel with a 145 hp fixed cruise prop. I have a flying restoration with some sheet metal work that would make you sick, but its safe and I got a new prop and a 350 smoh engine, new tanks, new panel, new interior. My panel even includes a garmin 430, probably overkill for a 170 but it does come in handy even though I don't like flying Low IFR in Singles whatsoever. A 150 or 172, gets boring to land, a 170 will never get boring to land, and in my experiences the 170 or at least mine will always have surprise, fly this one and you can fly any taildragger but at a few hours it gets REALLY easy. I actually had a problem with a flying a Stinson because I was'nt used to the steering being so reactive. Get one, just make sure you get a good prebuy and run things by the people on this board, we have alot of good people here with alot of knowledge about these A/C. Your probably not going to be able to find one with NDH, but just make sure it was repaired per the a/c manual and the advisory circulars and it probably won't make much of a difference. Further more if you do get one follow the must do's on the stickies on the maintence library.

[futr_alaskaflyer]

I'm 6'3" and close to 200 lbs and I have no prob getting in and out of or fitting into my 170. Still some head room left

It is my first plane, and likely to be my only one for a while unless I get a surprise inheritance or a lottery win and can afford to operate a 180/185 on my salary. I've found that after the initial 6-8 hours tailwheel takeoffs and landings have been anticlimactic in my bird (well, except for two of them but that was a mechanical issue )...but I don't let my guard down either. I initially learned in and mostly flew straight tail 172's, in a gusty corner of the country, so it was an easy transition for me.

There is a link in here somewhere to most popular/recommended mods. For me it has been the BAS tail handles, a future upgrade to the BAS inertia shoulder harnesses, repitching my prop to 76x51...and it had VG's when I purchased it. Still trying to decide on the best anti-collision lighting upgrade for flying in the Anchorage Bowl, for now I have a double flash strobe where the rotating beacon used to be.

Oh yeah, STC for auto fuel.