Looking at a 1954 170B and getting excited

[John Clifford]

I am looking long and hard at a 1954 170B that's on the market. My wife and I have become quite enamored with this bird. Got a big question for the guys. Plane is VFR, and I would like to upgrade to IFR. My son just had a stack of super whiz-bang moving map color GPS IFR stuff put in his Archer II. Had a few opportunities to play with this gear and love it. Has anyone installed a GPS IFR panel in their 170B?

[U2Hoog]

I asked my A&P about installing a Garmin 430 in my 1948 C170. He refused. He said it'd be a disservice to both the GPS and the aircraft and recommended I buy a handheld like the Garmin 196 or the Pilot III or the color one (can't remember the number) and put my money into other maintenance or upgrades. I have since done what I like to refer to as "emergency IFR" upgrades. Truthfully, I don't fly hard IFR in the 170, and so what I really needed wass something to get me through the tops here around PDX or get down in case the WX closes in. Just food for thought.

[GAHorn]

The Garmin 430 might be overkill but I'm surprised any shop would refuse to install one. It's a fantastic piece of equipment, of course. Lots of capability in one box which is ideal for a space-limited panel like a 170. It would be like having Dolby surround-sound in a megaphone tho'.
Even if you're a competent and current IFR pilot, the 170 is so light on the controls it can be a handful of work in solid IFR. Prediction: anything other than climbing/descending thru a layer is something you'll avoid after your first hard-IFR experince. Look at Russ Farris's message regarding this issue. (Use the memberlist and the search routine.)

[zero.one.victor]

I'm not an IFR pilot,but here's what I think would be a good IFR set-up for a 170.
1) transponder
2) 760 comm
3) Apollo (UPSAT) SL50 enroute/terminal approved GPS (or combine with comm by using SL60 GPS/com),for primary nav
4) CDI for GPS (brand?) with built-in annunciator lights as required for IFR-approved installation
5) Narco 122D or VAL INS-422 (both are VOR/LOC/GS with built-in marker beacon lights),for back-up nav & for shooting ILS approaches
I'd also have an intercom,as well as a handheld moving map GPS (Garmin Pilot 3) for situational awareness.
I know of people who use their handheld GPS for "direct" routing,even though it's not IFR-approved,they seem to get away with it. this above equipment should be legal.
Comments?

Eric

[blueldr]

If you really want to make your C-170 into an instrument flying machine, I suggest you seriously consider changing out the existing instrument panel and control yoke and installing a "U" yoke from a later model and a completely new instrument panel with center stacked radios and room for the necessary and priper instruments for IFR work.
Look up "Avion" on the internet, or contact Harry Delicker at Delair in Porterville, CA.

[rudymantel]

IFR definitely makes the airplane into a useful traveling machine. I file IFR all the time but avoid seriously bad wx and of course icing. I have two venturis and have not yet upgraded to a heated pitot. Nice thing is you can fly when "VFR is not recommended". Also, it's easier, even in good wx, with all the restricted airspaces, Class B, C etc.
I have a Bendix KX 155 with glide slope and a second Com, a VAL 760. Also a Audio panel/Marker Beacon receiver and of course an encoding XPDR. These make me legal for most flights and approaches. But most important, I have a yoke-mounted Garmin GPS 295 and external antenna-I don't leave home without it !
Rudy

[N1277D]

My 170A is IFR certified. It is very basic: KY97 com, Narco Nav 122D, KY86ADF, IIMorrow GX-55 GPS terminal and enroute certified, KT76 transponder with encoder, and a KMA20 Audio panel with marker beacon.

Around here the MEA's are so high that flying the 170 IFR is not very helpful or possible. Most clouds have ice. One can however get into an airport that has low ceilings, but enroute IFR is not recommended or possible in the 170 in this area cause of the mountainous terrian, and icing conditions year round in the clouds.

[superpilot_75965]

I fly IFR, have a II Morrow GX60 GPS/Com. KX 155 Com/Nav/GS.Heated Pitot/stall warning. Venturi. Works great. Updated AH and Gyro

[zero.one.victor]

As I understand it,for the II Morrow GX-55 or 60 ( or the current UPSAT SL-50 or 60) to be an IFR approved installation,they must be coupled to a CDI,along with annunciator lights to indicate when the CDI is GPS-ing. Is this correct?

Eric

[wa4jr]

I am embarking on IFR certification for my '54 170B. Thought GPS might be nice until the avionics shop said it would have to be connected to this and that with announciators here and there....and then holy Jesus the price for JUST the GPS...and this shop guy delivers the estimate to me with a straight face! No sir reee. Like George, I got a KLN-88 off e-bay for 300 and am puttin it in myself. Loran is still a very useful tool...even for some IFR work. A good PMA7000M audio/marker panel, KX-155 with GS, an AT-150 encoding transponder, and keeping my KX-170B as a second NAV/COM will bring me solid IFR capability for around $4500. Since I found that the cost of avionics installation equals or often exceeds the purchase price of the equipment itself, I am installing everything myself under the supervision of an A&P. Since I have the electrical skill necessary, this is going to be a good opportunity for me to learn about my airplane and save a few thousand dollars at the same time.

[N1277D]

Yes the GX-55 needs a CDI for an approved IFR installation. In my 170A, the CDI was installed in the bracket used for the optional carb temperature gauge that attaches to the panel under the throttle.

[superpilot_75965]

The CDI in my installation is the K?209A. Same instrument can be selected for GPS or VOR/ILS=GS. My Installation is IFR enroute and terminal certified.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Just finished the installation of a Garmin 155 (TSO) with a Collins 351D indicator and a AI 155 annunciator panel with the intent to get it IFR certified.
Then my avionics guy tells me the local FSDO will not approve the installation cause the annunciator panel is not TSOd.
To say I'm disappointed would be an under statement. Looks like I might be FSDO shopping.
Any body out there with an approved IFR GPS installation without a TSO'd annunciator panel I'd love to know about it and get a 337 if possible. I wouldn't necessarily need it for a Garmin, any installation without the TSO'd annunciator should do to set the precedent.