spring landing gear

[Koop]

I know this is an old subject but I still don't have a solid answer to my question. I have a 1955 Cessna 170 B serial number 26812. The parts manual says that 25612 and on, the spring landing gear part numbers are 0541118-2-3. Cessna Tech rep says that the thickness for serial number 25612 and on is 11/16". That is what mine measurment is. There is a Cessna 180, 1956 model next door and the thickness is 11/16". The Cessna Tech rep. also says the light 180 gear has a thickness of .688. Now lets see; 11/16" is .6875" and it could be .688 rounded off. I know mine are the " lady legs" so what is the consensus; do I have 170 gear legs?????. I need help because this is driving me nuts and it seems no one has a clear answer. I also need to get it sign off so I can fly again, since I called the The FAA safety Inspectors on matters concerning an A&P and a IA who signed off an unairworthy aircraft. And some fool bought it with out a proper pre-buy inspection. If it was up to me I would just fly it, because the legs are fine. but since I called the FAA I have to be sure. Just in case they want to check it again once all the other unairworthy items are taken care of.

[N170BP]

If it helps, I'm reasonably sure no C-180 was ever
built with "lady" gear legs.

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

[Dave Clark]

Koop unless you have some reason to believe the gear legs have been changed it seems to me it's a 99.9% probability that you have the lady legs that were fitted originally from the factory per serial number. Why are you so focused on this or am I missing something?

[Koop]

I have been given a two year letter of non compliance- letter of warning by the Hillsboro FSDO, Or. and so has the The owner of Franks's Flight Service in Bandon, Or., as well as his two sons who are A&P's at that facility. Myself for flying an aircraft before the log books had been documented and signed off by the IA as an airworthy aircraft and the IA for not signing the log book entries. I have filed a complaint with the FAA in HIllsboro FSDO against the A&P and the IA who signed off on the aircraft that I purchased with only 4 hours out of annual. One word of advise on log book entries: the A&P and IA who signed off the log books before I purchased the aircraft lied. I was sold an unairworthy aircraft log book entries don't mean a thing if the truth isn't being written. Spend the $500 for a good pre-buy inspection from someome you trust. That is a cheap price compared to what I got myself into. Second piece of advice: DON'T CALL THE FAA FOR HELP! They are not here to help you. Try to work it out between resonable people. In fact that's what I tried to do. But these are not honest truthful people. So to answer your question: what's the big deal? So as soon they see this aircraft parked at some airport, what's your bet that they won't stop by and screw with me? If it was just me I wouldn't care, but I am dealing with peoples jobs. Oh, one last thing. I was told my a very wise person who looked at the aircraft and was told not to buy it. It is so hard to blame ourselfs for are own screw ups. koop

[zero.one.victor]

Koop,first of all,regarding the gear legs--measure the length of your gear legs,from fuselage to axle bolts. Then measure the 180's legs.It's my understanding that the 180 legs are longer. I will try to remember to measure mine next time I'm at the airport. I have the 0741001-5 & -6 heavy duty 180 gear legs on my 170,according to the 337.
I kinda go along with Dave's comment that the gear legs are probably original,unless there is documentation to the contrary. Were you told that they are 180 gear legs,but can't find the paperwork to back it up?
Secondly,what is it that makes your 170 unairworthy? You made a comment that "some fool bought it without a proper pre-buy inspection". Do you own the airplane? Did you have a pre-buy done? I don't get what you're saying. You made another comment that a "very wise person" looked at the airplane and advised you not to buy it. What were the reason(s)? Was the person a mechanic,a 170 owner,or just a local airport guru?
Maybe we can offer some advise if you fill us in on the situation.

Eric

[Koop]

Eric:
I'm the fool who bought it and didn't do a proper pre-buy. The person who looked at it for about an hour and told me not to buy it is an A&P and also an IA. I have a wing spar which was improperly repaired located at the bottom middle of the left fuel tank. They installed a vacuum line for a fuel line. My flight instructor and I ran off the runway on my first attempt at take off. After that we started to dig deeper. We had no brakes because the break pads were wafer thin and the wrong pads. They had elongated the holes on the pads to make them work when they were new. We found the master break cylinder springs were installed backwards, so you were unable to get full breaking action. The Scott tail wheel assembly had to be repaired. You had no steerable tailwheel, 16 degress either side of center. Both mufflers had huge cracks in them and had to be replaced. The brace that ties the exhaust pipes together to help the mufflers from cracking was missing and had to be replaced. Only a $200 item. One of the seat rails had to be replaced. Had to replace both ailerons because of improper repairs. Reskinned both elavators top and bottom. They replaced the 1/8th" windshield without putting the center strips back on. The battery on the ELT had expired, and was completely dead. I have to buy a new ELT because the one that came with the aircraft has been altered to except a readily available battery. I could go on. But I hope you get the picture. The log books had been signed off as being airworthy, by the A&P and the IA. When I inspected the log books the aircraft was 4--FOUR HOURS OUT OF ANNUAL. I think these people owe me around $10,000 and the should spend some time in jail. It was a criminal offense, but my FAA friends say that the only way to prove this in a court of law is if you actually saw all these squacks before they signed off the annual. Hey, guess what! It would still be your word against theirs. Now that makes a lot of sense! koop

[zero.one.victor]

Well,it does sound like the airplane shouldn'ta been signed off as airworthy! Like you said,a proper pre-buy inspection woulda revealed some if not all of these problems. I know of another, similar situation where a 170 which I have a little knowledge of was bought without a good pre-buy inspection,and the airplane had some problems which soon reared their ugly head. It's a bummer--that other new owner apparently doesn't have much legal recourse either. Unfortunately, the old saying "let the buyer beware" is proved to be true again & again.
Regarding the gear legs,here's some information. I measured mine,which as I said are p/n 0741001-5 & -6 per the 337. The gear legs are about .686" thick,including paint. They are about 5-3/4" wide where they go into the fuselage,and about 1-7/8" wide where the axles bolt on. I measured about 32" from the forward edge of the gear leg at the fuselage,down to the top forward axle bolt. I hope this info is helpful in figuring if you have 180 legs or not.
Good luck with your 170,if you can get it all squared away without going crazy or broke I'm sure you'll love it!

Eric

[Bill Venohr]

Koop--I hope this all works out OK for you, but I know you're frustrated and rightfully so. I suspect nearly everyone who buys an older plane today discovers things that weren't found on the pre-buy that really should have been fixed. I budgeted a couple thousand for that possibility, and if I didn't have to spend the money on needed things then I would shift to wanted things. Unfortunately, I did have to do some repairs that were missed on the pre-buy (and a couple through the first annual). After three years of ownership and probably around 8K of repairs, etc (only a few from the purchase) I finally feel like I've got my plane in the mechanical shape I want. Hopefully now I can start budgeting for the wants.

[russ murri]

IF YOU LOOK IN THE 170 SERVICE RELATED ARTICLES MANUAL FROM THE 170 CLUB YOU WILL FIND A COMPARISON OF THE 170/180 LEGS RUSS

[zero.one.victor]

IF YOU LOOK IN THE 170 SERVICE RELATED ARTICLES MANUAL FROM THE 170 CLUB YOU WILL FIND A COMPARISON OF THE 170/180 LEGS RUSS

There's about 3 articles in the SRAM book about switching to 180 gear. One of the articles in particular is pretty informative,has part numbers and such. I have the -5 & -6 (heavy-duty) legs on mine,probably overkill for a 170. What I'm not sure I like is the forward rake of the 180 gear compared to 170 gear. The main wheels are 3-1/2" farther forward than stock. While this does indeed make it really hard to nose over--you might not even be able to do it if you tried!- I think that it can't help but increase the already unstable tendencies of tailwheel gear by locating the mains farther ahead of the CG. While an ace pilot like myself doesn't find this to be a problem ,I only have a few hours ( and very few landings & TO's) in a 170 with stock (early) gear legs to compare it to.
The forward-raked landing gear also puts more weight on the tail. This can be a problem taxiing on soft ground,especially making sharp turns.
Russ,you seem very happy with your 180 gear conversion. What p/n gear legs is on yours? I think the 1953-54 180 legs (-1 and -2) have 3" less rake than the later 180 legs,so they would only have about 1/2" more rake than stock 170 legs. They would be my choice.

Eric

[rudymantel]

Koop, since you have the lady legs it's almost a sure thing that you have stock 170 legs on your airplane. But if you really need expert verification, you might contact Tom Anderson of XP Modifications in Arlington WA Tel: 509-884-3355; tom@xpmods.com. "Tailwheel Tommy" as Eric calls him is probably the leading expert on Cessna gear legs.
You might even fly to his facility and let him look at your airplane.
Rudy

[zero.one.victor]

Koop,one of the articles in the SRAM book about gear leg conversions sez the 180 legs are about 2" longer than the early 170 legs,and the "ankle" is narrower by about a half inch. This ankle width comparison is NOT applicable for the lady legs,but the length comparison should be.
BTW,Tom Anderson of XP Mods moved over to Wenatchee WA last year.

Eric

[zero.one.victor]

IF YOU LOOK IN THE 170 SERVICE RELATED ARTICLES MANUAL FROM THE 170 CLUB YOU WILL FIND A COMPARISON OF THE 170/180 LEGS RUSS

..................................................................................................
Russ,you seem very happy with your 180 gear conversion. What p/n gear legs is on yours? I think the 1953-54 180 legs (-1 and -2) have 3" less rake than the later 180 legs,so they would only have about 1/2" more rake than stock 170 legs. They would be my choice.

Eric

How about it,Russ? What p/n gear legs do you have?

Eric