Crosswind Component Chart

[rashvac]

If anyone has a crosswind component chart for a 170B that you could email me, I would sure appreciate it. Is there a way to get one online? Thanks. rashvac@earthlink.net

[blueldr]

What in hell is a cross wind component chart? I don't believe I've ever seen one.

[GAHorn]

I don't know of ANY crosswind data as it pertains to the 170. If one cannot keep the airplane aligned with the runway with available rudder at touchdown speeds (less than 60 if wheel landing, less than 50 if 3-point) then the crosswind is excessive, in my opinion.
Having said that, I have had no problems wheel landing on dry concrete in 15-20 kt direct crosswinds but it is needful of attention. I'd recommend 20 kts as a maximum direct crosswind for the average, yet current, taildragger pilot. Wet pavement or grass would be worse due to lack of directional control/traction. (The problem that is exacerbated with landing airplanes on the upwind wheel such as most CFI's teach is that any weathervane tendencies are not capable of being offset by braking the downwind wheel which is still airborne. For that reason I personally favor a level touchdown on both main wheels, and judge my capability of dealing with any wind by using rudder as a yardstick: If I can keep the airplane pointed down the runway in a forward slip with wings level and using rudder only to offset the drift... then I know I can deal with the wind. Otherwise I need to find a different runway.)

A short tutorial on crosswind landings using the most commonly taught upwind-wheel down method:
http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magaz ... itle=April

I like this one because it relates to braking action reports:
Crosswind Component.doc[/attachment]

[rashvac]

Is there a demonstrated crosswind componet in the poh

[GAHorn]

I don't know of ANY crosswind data as it pertains to the 170.

And there is no POH for this airplane. (There's only an "Owners Manual" produced by the Cessna marketing people, and the AFM, which contains the pertinent/required data for performance and limitations without the rest of the unapproved information.)

[lowNslow]

For that reason I personally favor a level touchdown on both main wheels, and judge my capability of dealing with any wind by using rudder as a yardstick: If I can keep the airplane pointed down the runway in a forward slip with wings level and using rudder only to offset the drift... then I know I can deal with the wind.

I not sure I would recommend this technique with a tailwheel airplane. If I understand what your saying, you are de-crabing the airplane just before it touches down. The problem is if you misjudge on either side you might swap ends, a tricylced aircraft will tend to straighten itself out because the CG is forward of the gear - a tailwheel aircraft with the CG aft of the gear will tend to come around.

[GAHorn]

I do not mean to remove the "crab" just before touchdown. I do not favor a "crab" to deal with a crosswind. I favor a forward slip.

What I mean is that while on final I apply rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the runway centerline, coupled with sufficient aileron to prevent drifting (a forward slip). By such action I am able to judge whether the airplane can handle the crosswind component.

[lowNslow]

I do not mean to remove the "crab" just before touchdown. I do not favor a "crab" to deal with a crosswind. I favor a forward slip.

What I mean is that while on final I apply rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the runway centerline, coupled with sufficient aileron to prevent drifting (a forward slip). By such action I am able to judge whether the airplane can handle the crosswind component.

I'm trying to figure out how you accomplish a "level touchdown on both main wheels" while maintaining a forward slip?

[GAHorn]

I use ailerons for their intended purpose. I roll the airplane level at/or nearly at touchdown. On rollout I reapply ailerons to keep the upwind wing firmly planted, and use aggressive braking to quickly slow down and get the tail on the ground.

[HawkerCFI]

Crosswind Component Chart.....heh, heh, heh....That ain't no Crosswind Component Chart....

THIS is a Crosswind Component Chart!

http://images.google.com/images?source= ... MhOSpmePJX



The discussion on crosswind component, not a limitation but a demonstrated crosswind component is a very good one. The Crosswind Component Chart as you know is a handy gadget for determining just what is the crosswind component...headwind/crosswind...effective crosswind component.

Peace!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George's technique requires some timing for sure as does the crab. I do both depending on the situation and how I feel. I'm a helicopter pilot after all.

When I'm in doubt and using the crab technique I will always test on final to be sure I have enough control to straighten out at the bottom. Over the 10 years of ownership including a time commuting to work I'm sure I've demonstrated much more than a 20 knot crosswind component but it's not something I would relish doing day in and day out. 20 kts direct crosswind as suggested by George is probably a good limit for all but the most seasoned and current pilot.

[HawkerCFI]

Your chart is excellent, George...

But educate me on the James Brake Index issue.

Peace!

[1SeventyZ]

I do not mean to remove the "crab" just before touchdown. I do not favor a "crab" to deal with a crosswind. I favor a forward slip.

What I mean is that while on final I apply rudder to keep the airplane aligned with the runway centerline, coupled with sufficient aileron to prevent drifting (a forward slip). By such action I am able to judge whether the airplane can handle the crosswind component.

What you're describing is a side slip. Fundamentally the same as a forward slip, but worth noting that a side slip maintains heading same as track.

[jrenwick]

What you're describing is a side slip. Fundamentally the same as a forward slip, but worth noting that a side slip maintains heading same as track.

Thank you! Sideslip is what you do over the runway in a crosswind landing. Forward slip is what you do on final approach to lose altitude in a hurry (unless you're in a Cessna with slotted flaps fully deployed!). I've always found the terminology counterintuitive: to my way of thinking, the terms should be swapped. I'm still looking for a way to explain this to students that will remove the confusion, not just in their minds, but mostly in mine!

[GAHorn]

What you're describing is a side slip. Fundamentally the same as a forward slip, but worth noting that a side slip maintains heading same as track.

Thank you! Sideslip is what you do over the runway in a crosswind landing. Forward slip is what you do on final approach to lose altitude in a hurry (unless you're in a Cessna with slotted flaps fully deployed!). I've always found the terminology counterintuitive: to my way of thinking, the terms should be swapped. I'm still looking for a way to explain this to students that will remove the confusion, not just in their minds, but mostly in mine!

I'm not confuesed....I"m going FORWARD.... AIN'T I???? (thanks, Zane. Remember, I'm only a semi-propheshunal instrukter.)

(Yeah, John, me too. This is probably the second or third time I've been caught on this particular error on these forums. I don't know why I can't keep it straight.)