800x6 cleveland wheels and brake conversion kit

[bat443]

Actually George, if I may refer to you by your first name, if you install the F.Atlee Dodge STC SA02231AK approved replacement for the Goodyear wheels and brakes, which are Cleveland kits 199-62 or 199-62A only, then the 8.00-6 LARGER tires are the only ones legal as these are the only tires listed in the applicability table of the installation instructions. When the FAA granted the authority to install these wheels (40-75D) and brakes (30-52N) as replacements for Goodyear wheels and brakes on the type certificate it became APPROVED data in the form of STC SA02231AK. As for my statement "wheel/tire combination does not matter" let me rephrase that as "Goodyear wheel or approved (STC) replacement wheel (40-75D from kit 199-62 or 40-75T from kit 199-62A for 8.00-6 per F.Atlee Dodge STC or 40-97A from kit 199-46 for 6.00-6 per Cleveland STC/ does not matter". It appears there is no STC approval for the installation of 6.00-6 tires on double puck brakes (wheel 40-75B and brake 30-52) as Cleveland kit 199-46 is for single puck brakes (wheel/brake disc assembly 40-97A and brake 30-63A). I do not think Cleveland is being hard headed on the installation of tires larger than 6.00-6 on the 40-97A from kit 199-46, they just know that it would require a different brake disc (the difference between a 40-75D wheel/brake disc assembly and a 40-75B wheel/brake disc assembly) to insure clearance between the brake caliper and tire side wall and I agree that the number of potential sales in all probability would not justify the cost. If kit 199-46 were not approved for thousands of 172s and 182s in addition to the 170 then it probably would not be cost effective to develop and approve a kit for 6.00-6 tires on the 170 either. This has been a fun discussion.

[falco]

What in h--- are all you guys trying to do? Can you even begin to immagine how many totally innocent Cessna drivers of almost all of the single engine series of airplanes are going to lose weight and sleep over finding out that their tire sizes are not authorized on their wheels? You really know how to hurt guys like me that install anything other than 600s.

I cant believe how long I have been illegal running those 8.00s on my cleveland wheels. AND I put the 6.00s on it this summer for the wrong reasons -- not to get back in compliance but to reduce weight and drag for last years trip to sloshkosh. I feel so guilty. Like such a dirty scofflaw. I think I'll run right down to the FSDO and confess.

But then if I lose weight over this I might just put the heavier tires back on...

[blueldr]

Falco,
Don't go down to the FSDO today. The line is too long.

[GAHorn]

Yes, Tim,...we are in agreement that the Atlee Dodge STC provides the necessary basis of approval. (Unfortunately that "approved data" only applies to those aircraft with the valid STC....not all aircraft.) And you are likely correct in your assessment of Cleveland's issues regarding the brakes.
I personally believe Cleveland simply did not think it worth their time/money to obtain approval for larger tires on the conversion kit because they don't make any more money by obtaining the approval than they do by simply selling the kits and letting owners (who know this is a silly matter) deal with the details of legality. (sigh)
Thanks for your input and information on the Atlee Dodge STC.

[n2582d]

In a previous post I assumed that the comment in Aircraft Spruce requiring 6.00 X 6 tires on the Cleveland 199-62 kit was a typo. (See Cleveland Wheel & Brake Kits here.) Andy responded that he bought the kit and the wheels had a sticker stating "for 6.00 X 6 tires only". As I know Blueldr has been having many a sleepless night over this I e-mailed Aircraft Spruce to ask them about this. They in turn asked Cleveland. Here is the response from Cleveland:

"The 199-62 conversion kits can use the 6.00, 7.00 & 8.00-6 tires. Which
is on the supporting paper-work and drawing inside the box.

Please let me know if I can be of any additional assistance.

Thanks for supporting Parker/Cleveland Products
Technical Support Specialist.
Parker Hannifin Corporation
Parker Aerospace
Aircraft Wheels & Brakes Division
Manufacturer of Cleveland Wheels & Brakes
(440) 937-1213 (PH)
(866) 260-0320 (E-Fax)
(800) 272-5464 Tech Support Hotline"

So, if this is correct, the listing in Aircraft Spruce and the sticker Andy found on his rims is there in err.

... if you install the F.Atlee Dodge STC SA02231AK approved replacement for the Goodyear wheels and brakes, which are Cleveland kits 199-62 or 199-62A only, then the 8.00-6 LARGER tires are the only ones legal as these are the only tires listed in the applicability table of the installation instructions. ... It appears there is no STC approval for the installation of 6.00-6 tires on double puck brakes (wheel 40-75B and brake 30-52) ... .

This disagrees with the e-mail from Cleveland Tech Support. It seems that Cleveland needs someone from the engineering department to proofread their publications/documents or someone in Tech Support to read their own literature a bit closer.

[GAHorn]

...Here is the response from Cleveland:

"The 199-62 conversion kits can use the 6.00, 7.00 & 8.00-6 tires. Which
is on the supporting paper-work and drawing inside the box.

Please let me know if I can be of any additional assistance.

Thanks for supporting Parker/Cleveland Products
Technical Support Specialist.
Parker Hannifin Corporation
Parker Aerospace
Aircraft Wheels & Brakes Division
Manufacturer of Cleveland Wheels & Brakes
(440) 937-1213 (PH)
(866) 260-0320 (E-Fax)
(800) 272-5464 Tech Support Hotline"

So, if this is correct, the listing in Aircraft Spruce and the sticker Andy found on his rims is there in err.

... if you install the F.Atlee Dodge STC SA02231AK approved replacement for the Goodyear wheels and brakes, which are Cleveland kits 199-62 or 199-62A only, then the 8.00-6 LARGER tires are the only ones legal as these are the only tires listed in the applicability table of the installation instructions. ... It appears there is no STC approval for the installation of 6.00-6 tires on double puck brakes (wheel 40-75B and brake 30-52) ... .

This disagrees with the e-mail from Cleveland Tech Support. It seems that Cleveland needs someone from the engineering department to proofread their publications/documents or someone in Tech Support to read their own literature a bit closer.

If true....This is good news...however it is not in accordance with the data and specifications in the approved STC paperwork accompanying my Cleveland wheel conversion ...which specifically requires only 600X6 ties. If the STC paperwork is incorrect, then Cleveland needs to correct it. ( I will contact them on this ASAP.)

[n2582d]

George,
Do you have the 199-46 or the 199-62 conversion kit?

[GAHorn]

George,
Do you have the 199-46 or the 199-62 conversion kit?

199-46, INstalled in accordance with Cleveland STC SA 13 GL.

[n2582d]

George,
Do you have the 199-46 or the 199-62 conversion kit?

199-46, INstalled in accordance with Cleveland STC SA 13 GL.

It is the 199-62 kit, not the 199-46 kit, that according to the Cleveland tech rep allows the 6.00, 7.00, and 8.00 X 6 tires. The 199-62 kit is not STC'ed on the C-170 aircraft by Cleveland; the 199-62 kit is STC'ed for the C-170 by F. Atlee Dodge and ABI. Comparing the two kits in the Cleveland catalog show that differences have to do with the brakes. The 199-46 uses disc 164-02601 while the 199-62 uses disc 164-03601. (P/N's for respective chrome discs are also different). The 199-46 uses the single puck 30-63A caliper assembly and the 199-62 uses the dual puck 30-52N assembly. Both the 199-62 and the 199-62A are included in F Atlee Dodge's STC SA02231AK and ABI's STC SA02576AK for the C-170. I believe the primary difference between these two is that the 199-62 is for a 3-bolt wheel and the 199-62A is for a 6-bolt wheel. The main difference between ABI's conversion kit and the Cleveland kit is that ABI's is aluminum and Cleveland's is magnesium.

[mit]

God I hate to drag this up again!......... . But I can't find the STC' holder for 8:50's? I know I saw a Thread that listed a couple, I guess I should look at the FAA sight. George do you have them? or post a link. Thanks

[runerider]

You might want to try Atlee Dodge stc SA02231ak should get you going in the right direction.

[GAHorn]

God I hate to drag this up again!......... . But I can't find the STC' holder for 8:50's? I know I saw a Thread that listed a couple, I guess I should look at the FAA sight. George do you have them? or post a link. Thanks

I do not have the STC paperwork or a link for the 8:50 tires... but I see lots of field approvals for it. Atlee Dodge may have some resource according to some. Sorry not to be more help.

[mit]

God I hate to drag this up again!......... . But I can't find the STC' holder for 8:50's? I know I saw a Thread that listed a couple, I guess I should look at the FAA sight. George do you have them? or post a link. Thanks

I do not have the STC paperwork or a link for the 8:50 tires... but I see lots of field approvals for it. Atlee Dodge may have some resource according to some. Sorry not to be more help.

I thought I saw a thread in the last 6 months or so; where someone posted a couple of outfits that had the STC. This was the closest thread I found. I will call Atlee. I also looked through the FAA STC list but not very thorough, didn't see one, did see Atlee had one for some different Cleveland's.

Thanks

[futr_alaskaflyer]

Gotta love field approvals. Had one for 8.50s on 6 inch Clevelands, then another for the Cleveland double puck brakes on 6 inch Clevelands with 8.50s...

But what if I try to reinstall the 7.00 tires which had been reinstalled after the field approval for the 8.50 tires on six inch Clevalands but had been removed again and replaced by the 8.50s prior to the field approval for the Cleveland double puck brakes?


That's referred to as "return to service".

[avoight]

So did ACS verify the "6.00 x 6 tires only" in their catalog at the bottom of the C-180 8.00 x 6 Conversion kit description was a miss-print along with the little decals on my wheels from Cleveland? Sorry I haven't followed up on this myself guys, been too busy with other paperwork issues. (and the new kit is not yet installed) Another STC that calls out the Cleveland 199-62 conversion kit is the Alaska Bush Wheels. Their STC requires the double puck brakes for any of the bush wheel installs.