Starter Problems

170C · Post by **170C** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:42 am

Well here I go again, asking for help. Its nice to have all of you out there to give input however.

I have, over the past 14 yrs had to replace the starter clutch on my O-300B two times and now Ole Pokey is in the shop for her annual & it appears I am going to have to do #3. Don't know why mine seem not to last unless its because I am getting rebuilt ones from Niagra Air Parts. I have been told if the engine kicks back it can ruin the clutch, but that has only been a problem in rare instances with Ole Pokey.

Does anyone know of a better source for clutches than Niagra? They usually sell a rebuilt one for $155.00 if your old core is rebuildable. They are out of them and are likely not going to continue rebuilding the old 4 roller models. Now they have the 5 roller models @ $225.00 + a $150.00 core charge. If my core is beyone repair, which I think it is, it will cost around $300.00

On the same subject I am curious about converting to one of the Sky Tec lightweight starters. Appears the cost is about $500 for the unit, but was told a modification has to be made to the gear (s) in the accessory case, so that would most likely be rather expensive. Any body got any experience with the conversion or its probable cost? The folks I have talked to that have the new starters all seem to like them.

Any input or suggestions on either or both of the above will be MOST appreciated as I need to make a decision by Wednesday AM whether to order from Nigara, or elsewhere or consider the new starter conversion.

Thanks in advance.

Ole Pokey

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:52 am

B&C makes a button-start starter to replace the pull start unit on our engines,but they sell for $800 plus per my Spruce catalog. I believe that you have to remove (cut off) a pinion shaft inside the accesory case.
I see in my Spruce catalog that SkyTec makes key start starters for the O-300A,lists at $525. I would guess that to use this as a replacement for a pull-start unit,you have to remove that same pinion shaft. Or maybe switch to a key-start starter clutch. If the latter is the case,I think it's a step in the wrong direction. The key-type starter clutch turns all the time,& so would wear out WAY sooner than the pull-type,which only turns until you release the pull knob. I had the starter clutch needle bearing come apart in my O-200 once, NOT a good thing!

What's going wrong with your pull starter clutch--is it the clutch device itself? Or is it something that may be caused by improper adjustment? I've got about 450 hours so far on a Niagra unit & it seems to be working just fine. How many hours are you getting out of yours?

Eric

Eric

mit · Post by **mit** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:23 am

Somtimes, it is nice to just yank on an old piano wire to turn her over!

4-Shipp · Post by **4-Shipp** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:13 pm

Try aerotech of Louisville. 800-634-0180. They have a websight with prices but I don't have the address. Do a google search. Good luck.

Bruce

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:16 pm

Read this link about lightweight starters:
http://www.sacskyranch.com/april_02_techarticle

Also, you might want to consider the SkyTec, Frank. They are located near you at Granbury, TX. I know one of the sales reps there, (Rick Chiappe) as his brother (Glenn) is nearby me down here at Spicewood. Tell him I sent you. (I might get a brownie point, who knows? I'm actually trying to get him to donate one for the convention next year, but don't mention it yet.) 800-476-7896
http://www.skytecair.com/about_us.htm
http://www.skytecair.com/Continental.htm

Instructions for removing the internal pinion shaft are at:
http://www.skytecair.com/Converting_Pull.htm

Lastly, if you have been having a problem with "kickback", you should get it fixed PRONTO. See: http://www.skytecair.com/Kickback.htm (ignoring the obvious sales pitch for a particular lightweight starter.)

Now Frank, I've got an idea for you. Instead of installing the push-button switch in the cockpit, why don't you install it on the firewall, just below where the current bowden pull-cable exits the firewall. Attaching one end of a short lever to the bowden cable, and the other end of the short lever to a pin or eye-bolt on the firewall just below the push-button, (in other words the push-button will be activated by the middle of the lever by pulling the old pull-cable) you won't have to make any changes in your cockpit, and will retain the use of the pull cable. Capiche?

I've heard rumors of the new lightweight starters causing cracking and damage to the accy case housings, but it's only been rumors. I've never actually seen such a case, and I'm unsure if the rumor is a creation of the old-type overhaulers. As the rumor goes, the sudden impact of the more powerful startup impulse of the lightweight starter causes undue stress. As I said, it's heresay at the moment.

Any feedback out there?

170C · Post by **170C** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:45 pm

Thanks to all who have contributed idea's, etc.

I have talked to Sky Tec, they only sell to dealers and/or FBO's. Their price to an FBO ordering just one unit is approx $500.00. As earlier said I don't know what the pinion gear modification would run money wise, but will check our vrs suggested sites and try to get something ordered today. Also found out the housing where the pinion shaft goes through is worn and either must be replaced with a less worn one or have new bushing installed plus the oil seal. Getting ready to install the oil seal, which George (I believe) provided the part #, is what caused my starter to be removed in the first place. Guess that was blind/dumb luck on my part.

Ole Pokey

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:06 pm

The Sky Tec units may be purchased thru Aircraft Spruce for approx. $525. 877/477-7823
I still suggest you contact Sky Tec directly before ordering their starter to ascertain the exact pn you need.

lowNslow · Post by **lowNslow** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:17 am

I had the B&C starter installed when I had my engine overhauled in '98. It has been trouble free. Since this does require shortning the pinion shaft, I probably would not get this one as a replacement, but since my engine was already apart it was no problem. It weighs 5lbs less than the original starter and provides much better cranking power. I have it set up as a key start.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 3:21 am

gahorn wrote:
Now Frank, I've got an idea for you. Instead of installing the push-button switch in the cockpit, why don't you install it on the firewall, just below where the current bowden pull-cable exits the firewall. Attaching one end of a short lever to the bowden cable, and the other end of the short lever to a pin or eye-bolt on the firewall just below the push-button, (in other words the push-button will be activated by the middle of the lever by pulling the old pull-cable) you won't have to make any changes in your cockpit, and will retain the use of the pull cable. Capiche?

I've heard rumors of the new lightweight starters causing cracking and damage to the accy case housings, but it's only been rumors. I've never actually seen such a case, and I'm unsure if the rumor is a creation of the old-type overhaulers. As the rumor goes, the sudden impact of the more powerful startup impulse of the lightweight starter causes undue stress. As I said, it's heresay at the moment.

Any feedback out there?

I've never heard any talk about accy case housings cracking due to starters,lightweight or stock.
George,you were pulling Frank's leg with the cable-operated push-button business,right? That's such a Rube Goldberg haywire lash-up you described, I'm sure you're not serious. Please tell me you're not......

Eric

n3833v · Post by **n3833v** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:26 pm

Why not, it's less wiring and simpler. It still maintains the old style pull.

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 1:23 pm

I have an idea... How about putting the push-button switch on the floor by the pilot's left foot. That way you can start it like an old Jeep.

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:03 am

Geez,why not mount it up on the nosebowl? You can pretend that you're hand-propping it..........

Eric

The International Cessna 170 Association

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