How to install a Baggage Door?

[GAHorn]

The "Omni-Vision" model bag doors will fit the "fastback" fuselage just fine, although I've been told there may be a minor change to the installation procedure. Del Lehmann did mine using Harry Dellicker's (Del Air) STC. We obtained my bag door from a 1962 C-172, a "fastback" model, and it was really really easy. Why? Because Del did it and not me. (I'm not sure he felt it was as easy as I did.)

Meanwhile...as for the interior surrounds covering the frames of the completed installation: Selkirk in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho sells those parts (That's where I got mine) in fiberglass and all you have to do is trim them and paint the the rattle-can color you like....or be willing to accept their standard interior colors. http://www.selkirk-aviation.com/fiberglass.html

Here you can see pics of Del, my door, and the installed/completion: http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... oor#p71371

[bagarre]

How hard is it to match the curve of the fuselage to the curve of the door when they may have been built 40 or so years apart from each other?

I backed off of doing this job because I was told it can be a real pain to get the door to fit right.

[GAHorn]

Del-Airs instructions are very complete and helpful. You can use a stiff piece of cardboard to trim to fit your fuselage curve and then compare it to your salvaged door. (I think you'll find minor fitting will be necessary, but completely do-able.)

The fit of my door is actually better than the camera angles show in this pic. The seam surrounding is evenly-spaced (not like the camer implies in this pic where the upper seam appears too "open"... in actuality the seams are even all-around)... the curve matches the fuselage very well...as good as any original Cessna production airplane I've ever seen. (Thank you, Del!)

[bagarre]

That does look nice.
Funny thing, the door that ptporebski is looking at is the one I passed on. Well, I passed on it 'cuz of a failed power supply I had to spend my money on but I didn't get back with the guy 'cuz I was concerned with the fitting.

I might have to think about this one again.

[minton]

So, how would you describe how much of the plane you need to a person with a sawza and a baggage door for sale.
I have someone willing to 'cut out the door' for me but I want to make sure I get what I need.

Is a general statement of "Six inches all around" safe enough?

David

NO! It requires you take the entire Sta. 90 bulkhead and the baggage door frame. The sta. 90 circ. is doubled up from under the window clear under the floor to a spot on the right hand side below the window. This is to beef up the skin lap with two rows of rivets.

[ptporebski]

Minton,
Can you tell me what the frame 90 circumferential is? Is that the interior reinforcement that surrounds the door opening? Or is it something else that I need to ensure is part of the deal?
Thank you.

[minton]

Minton,
Can you tell me what the frame 90 circumferential is? Is that the interior reinforcement that surrounds the door opening? Or is it something else that I need to ensure is part of the deal?
Thank you.

I see it's called a "Bulkhead" p/n 0512113 (sta. 90). Figure 23 in the 170B parts book. You can use it as the reverse 1/2 reinforcement for the baggage door install or if you are lucky enough to get the whole installation from a later plane you will see what I'm refering to as far as a doubled up bulkhead. At any rate the STC'd ones have omitted or not even addressed the issue of crush/shear strength in that skin lap/ bag door area.

Maybe someone with a better parts book library can come up with the part number and drawings.

[GAHorn]

Before any "crush or shear strength" is important in this installation you would have to crash the airplane into a canyon/stone wall, in which case it is a moot point. Obviously neither the developer of the STC nor the approving FAA engineering group nor Cessna, who never doubled up this area, don't have the same opinion as minton on this point.
(In fairness to minton, I too put off making this mod for some time out of concern for maintaining structural integrity, expecially on a tail-dragger. It took me quite a while and many consultations with people familiar with aircraft structures before I was comfortable in doing this. Cleo Bickford, former club HIstorian and aircraft manufacturing engineer with Anderson-Greenwood (last owner of the Bellanca type cert.) is who convinced me that my concerns were without basis, and that the Del Air STC was fully adequate to maintain structural integrity of this airplane. I'm not trying to diminish what I believe is minton's conservative approach on this. I'm only saying... there's a lot of qualified folks who don't think extra structure in this particular installation is necessary, and adds unecessary weight and complexity.

It looks to me like the photos of the bag door you are considering will have all the necessary parts for this mod. Just be certain to get a good portion of that aft bulkhead in the pic.

Pete, I suggest you get a copy of the Del-Air instructions for study by you/your installer before going much farther with this. I'll try to post them in the Mx Library. (Remember, you'll still need to obtain your own assigned/serial numbered copy from Harry Hellicker.)

Look again at the other link to the post showing Del holding my salvage door and the finished product, then....
... here's some pics of mine (performed by Del) which should give your some more help in decisionmaking:
Del, (aka: "wingnut") holding my salvaged door, as-removed:


Here's the door after the excess old fuselage was removed from it, and it was stripped of paint:

door.jpg

Here's the framework:

Frame.JPG

Using heavy paper, trace the door outline to make a stencil, then transfer it to the fuselage with a felt-tip pen:

Stencil for Cut.jpg

Remove the interior to gain access to the sidewall:

Inside Before the Cut.jpg

Then, with great courage...make the first cut to remove the sidewall. (Seriously...the STC covers this quite well.)

Heres the area (with carpet removed) cut away at the floor-line to accomodate the door-frame.

Floor modification.jpg

Paint the finished door to match the rest:

Happy owner...who can now access all the junk he carries in the bag compartment (notice the spring-stut added at the top of the door:


And a finesse' of final touche'.... use a sailboat companionway door-strut ($11 at marine stores, or expensive Beech STC'd unit for $80) to hold your door open in a breeze:

hardware05720vs6.jpg

Here's how it looks used on Barons...but the same spring can be found at marine suppliers:

hardware06120ha0.jpg

[blueldr]

What's the basis of authorization for installing that el cheapo non aeronautical unapproved marine door holding strut?
I can buy better gas struts than that at Pep Boys! They're not approved either.
Kinda depends on whose ox is getting gored, eh George?

[GAHorn]

What's the basis of authorization for installing that el cheapo non aeronautical unapproved marine door holding strut?
I can buy better gas struts than that at Pep Boys! They're not approved either.
Kinda depends on whose ox is getting gored, eh George?

Now, Dick...you now very well the difference between a FUEL SYSTEM component part replacement ....and an INTERIOR TRIM item. One of them requires an approval basis. Guess which?

(And yes, the gas-strut could be used in the application...but the problem for me was that it places undue stress on the door hinges when closing the door. The "Spring-Thing" does not. In addition the spring was cheaper, and I know that should appeal to you.)

[blueldr]

Economy is the watchword wnen working on my airplanes Thats the reason I used Pep Boys fuel hose on the VENT line.

[minton]

George,
Another instance of me (the messenger) pointing out some stark differences in production aircraft engineering and STC's (DER's engineering) and another person pointing out differences in production engineering and a DER's approach and thumbing their nose at what is meant to be a meaningful, thoughtful conveyance of useful information. Thats all it was. I'll go my way and they can go theirs but the information is out there for them to digest. Consumers get to choose their own poison on this one. I certainly don't loose any sleep over others choices, but I'll continue to point out what I consider to be weaknesses and or oversights in the developement of modifications

I would look at the stresses that float operations put on sta. 90 before I would make any harsh judgements on crush stresses applied to that area and a door frame without doublers @ sta. 90.

This is all just my humble opinion.

[minton]

Economy is the watchword wnen working on my airplanes Thats the reason I used Pep Boys fuel hose on the VENT line.

BL,

I'd be looking at the aerosols (additives) used in Mogas vs Avgas and the compatability of automotive hoses. This is the same issue that involves the carburetor needle valves. Of course if you are useing Mogas in your case then no issue> I believe that there are many threads addressing that issue to reference with the clubs data base.

Again, just my humble opinions.

John

[GAHorn]

...I would look at the stresses that float operations put on sta. 90 before I would make any harsh judgements on crush stresses applied to that area and a door frame without doublers @ sta. 90.

This is all just my humble opinion.

Can you point to any airplanes with baggage doors installed with Harry Dellicker's STC which have suffered such damage?

[falco]

had mine in for 11 years and about 900 hours. done per Harry's STC. No evidence of any structural issues.