Destroyed cylinders

[busav8or]

OK, I'm off my Airbus soapbox now, and have a C145 engine concern/question. I took my airplane in for annual in late September and was told by the IA that I had some serious exhaust leak issues due to improper exhaust gaskets (Lycoming) having been installed sometime in the past. This allowed erosion of the exhaust ports on four of six cylinders. It just so happened that some friends, Forrest and Russ, had twelve cylinders that they had removed from two different engines and were willing to part with for a very reasonable price. My IA figured that out of their twelve and my six we could find six useable ones and sent them off to a well known engine shop here in NC. They confirmed that there were six good ones, but that they would need to be bored out .005 over to be useable. They sent them out to Oklahoma to another well known repair shop for the job. This shop then condemned all six saying they had cracks and then destroyed them! My questions are, how could one shop find six repairable cylinders and another condemn them all as unusable? Is it normal procedure for a shop to destroy something they claim as flawed without offering to return them for further inspection?

I have purposely left out the names of the shops involved since this is an ongoing issue and I don't want to cast aspersions against either one as this may be normal procedure. Just seems strange to me! What do you all think?

Thanks,
Joe

[DaveF]

That's wrong. Airworthy or not, the cylinders are your property until you give the shop permission to discard or destroy them.

[blueldr]

I have NEVER hard of anything like that either. I believe you might have reason to demand compensation of some kind. The destruction of the cylinders without notifying the owner beforehand seems to be an unlikely procedure that smacks of some kind of an in-house screw up.
In view of your having bought those cylinders and had a monetary interest in them, I can't immagine how they could be authorized to destroy them without your permission.

[FredMa]

I don't believe they have any right to destroy anything without owner consent. Even if they did find legitimate defects with them. They should red tag them then should return them if that is what you request. With the airlines the FAA requires condemned parts to be red tagged and physically seperated from servicable parts,( put in a quaqrantine cage). There is no requirement for the part to be destroyed. Call them and ask. Maybe they are misreading the FAR's or something. Some condemned parts can be made serviceable again, for example: there were some bleed pipes that commonly cracked on a plane I used to work on. There was no approved repair for the cracks. The replacement cost was $20,000 ea. Someone eventually developed an approved method to repair the cracks and the pipes were repaired and returned to servicable condition. If they could not give me a reasonable explanation I would consider a lawsuit, if it were me.

[FredMa]

I would also be asking for a copy of the work order for the work they performed on YOUR cylinders. It should detail any defects they found. If you paid them to inspect/repair your cylinders they owe you a copy of the work orders. If you didn't pay them or they don't have a work order then they didn't document their work (illegal) even if the work only involved an inspection. Keep us updated on what you find out.

[n3833v]

When you own the cylinders, they have no right to destroy without your permission. I almost had the happen with me, but did get mine back.

John

[bagarre]

A friend of my Dad sent some cylinders out and the shop (no names) found them unairworthy and returned them with the ports welded up to make sure they couldn't be re-used. (they were even off an Experimental too)
In the end, after a round with the lawyers, he was given 4 cylinders in similar condition before the welding. Which means, he got 4 unairworthy red-tagged cylinders back. Not much of a win.

In his case, the shop was able to show WHY they were red-tagged and didnt have to replace them with anything but other red-tagged cylinders. In your case, if they are destroyed, they might not be able to.

But it's still probably a losing battle to sue them and expect servicable replacements

[pdb]

How about doing all of us a favor and identify the OK shop that destroyed the cylinders without your consent.

[N2255D]

When I sent a cylinder for overhaul it was sent back in 2 boxes one had all the serviceable parts and the other had the unserviceable parts. Never heard of a shop destroying the unserviceable parts. Sounds mighty fishy to me.

[busav8or]

Thanks for all the support on this issue, guys. There is a possible light at the end of the tunnel on this issue and I don't want to reveal the names of the shop involved yet for fear that it might influence the final outcome. Hopefully, soon, I'll be able to name the company involved with a report that, yes, they screwed up, but that they made it right. One way or the other you'll know who they were and whether to support them with future business or not.

[hilltop170]

Another possibility on those cylinders is if that shop is as corrupt like it looks, they may have been perfectly good cylinders and if they needed some for another job, they just stole them. I don't know what is worse, destroying someone else's property or stealing it. Not making any accusations, justy another possibility if you never saw the "destroyed" parts.

[blueldr]

A friend of mine sent an O-470 crankshaft in to be inspected and reground if necessary. The repair station informed him that they had to condemn the crankshaft for a crack in the prop flange/journal juncture. He had them return the crankshaft to him and he found that they had sent him a different crankshaft. He had secretly marked the crankshaft with very small center punch marks and photographed his markings. The engine belonged to a sharp lawyer from his Bonanza and before it was all over, they received a NEW crankshaft and indemnification from an out of court settlement.

[N2255D]

When I sent a cylinder for overhaul it was sent back in 2 boxes one had all the serviceable parts and the other had the unserviceable parts. Never heard of a shop destroying the unserviceable parts. Sounds mighty fishy to me.

More recently (May 2010) when I had my engine overhauled, at the shop close by here, they gave me all all the bad parts (cams lifters, bearings,nuts and bolts) in a box when I picked the engine up.

[hilltop170]

Yes, that is the usual and customery thing to do. Something is fishy with that other shop.

[DaveF]

That area of my hangar is called "The Shelf of Shame". Every red-tagged part on it has a story. Usually an expensive story.