Cessna 170 Loan Issues

[GAHorn]

The BEST ones ARE red.
Most green ones are projects.

[juredd1]

Thank you once again for the wonderful afternoon reading. After reading some of these posts I have come to the conclusion that my first problem is I don't know what the heck I want other than I want to go flying. I don't want to rush this as it seems I am jumping at every 170A & B model that looks reasonable to me because I am afraid that if I will miss this one I will never find another one like that or as good as that one was or I am convinced it was. Also I am just plain afraid if I continue to wait that I won't ever get one for so many different reasons ranging from figuring out that I won't die if I don't get to go flying for a couple months to the wife figuring out that she can get more out of me if I'm without plane.

Visually from the outside I can't yet tell the difference between the two planes. So I have not been swayed much that way but I have been bitten by the interior and panel on an A model. It's perfect in pretty much every way that I think I want, now the exterior needs help, mainly just a paint job (Most likely in RED!), pretty straight bird I feel like. Then spotted a B model that I convinced myself was doable (price wise). Interior is wonder and panel is wonderful I am sure but not "it", for lack of a better word. Probably would have been "it" had I seen it first but the allure of owning the 'B' model drives me crazy. I am loosing sleep over this and my job is suffering. Is this normal? I need help and I am not expecting anyone on the forum to be able to decide for me what I want, I know that is something I have to decide on. It's just huge for me I need to get this right the first time I can't survive another sell and purchase. Barring some big pay increase of money flow change what I buy this time will likely be with me for a very long time.

By the way there is ruffly double the engine hours since major on the B model but still under 1000 hours. Not sure how much weigh to put on that since I know if the engine last that will be a lot of flying for me yet.

I probably need to do some better research on the mods that are and are not available on these models just in case I some day do want to do something and find out that is not possible on my model and sometimes I feel like I just don't care I want something to fly.

I need a virtual inspection team made up of you folks that I can take with me and put the plane on display so I don't screw this up.

Your probably thinking this guy is one crazy sucker, probably not far off. My head hurts, gotta get back to my job now so I don't have to think as much. Not sure that's possible but will try.

Justin

[hilltop170]

Justin-
Having been in your place, I can tell you not to get in any hurry. There are planes being put up for sale every day and if you miss a good one, it's not the end of the world. Look at every plane you can or at least call every seller you can find. The more you look, the better you will get at looking, the more you will understand about 170s in general, and the better end product you will get when you finally find the right one.

In the past I have looked for up to two years before finding the right one. You will know it when you find the right one. Still, you need to do your due diligence, check records, get a full annual inspection from an IA of your choosing and not just an undefinable "pre-buy" that has no legal basis or scope, and find out all you can from the seller about the airplane. You will be surprised how quickly your knowledge base will improve. The more you investigate the more fun it will be once you get over the beginner's hump.

Good luck!

[Brad Brady]

The BEST ones ARE red.
Most green ones are projects.

Hey! I resemble that statement!

[170C]

Justin, you are fortunately getting a lot of good advise from members on this forum. Take it to heart! DON'T RUSH INTO A DECISION! Back off, take some deep breaths and do what guys like Richard, George, Bruce, and others have suggested. There are tons of 170's out there for sale so get too uptight if you pass on a bunch of them. Eventually you will find what works for you and you will then begin to enjoy your 170 ownership. Keep us informed on your search. (Keep in mind your eventual lender is going to require an insurance policy to protect his loan. There are a number of good sources for the required coverage.)

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Justin, you are describing exactly how I felt. Thought I'd be lucky to own one plane and that would be it. Four planes later I can tell you I was wrong. I can tell you buying my first 170, my third airplane, I thought I could wait and look and find the perfect one. I was wrong I thought I'd better buy the one I found and I did. I have no regrets buying it. In many ways I miss it.

I've since entered into a partnership with my good friend in his 170. It's working well for both of us. But it doesn't stop me from wondering if I made the right choice because since then at least six 170s have come on the market I would have been interested in. If I was actually in the market to buy I might have bought the first one of these six because after all another one would never come my way.

So what I'm saying is you are no different than many of us. Take your time. Enjoy the hunt. There will always be another 170. Yes it might be time consuming but look at a few of them. Think about what you would like to have. Think about how your going to keep it. Tied outside or in a hanger if you can afford and or find one. How you are going to store your plane might help you decide which one is more right for you.

BTW where are you located?

[Brad Brady]

...In theory when the APIA signs the aircraft off as passing an annual, He is actually saying he has looked at every thing, including every repair and mod that has been incorporated in that aircraft. He has deemed all work satisfactory, and the condition of the aircraft is within (this becomes convoluted), standards of new. ....

I know what you mean...but that's not what you wrote. The annual inspection does NOT attest that the aircraft meets "standards of new". If it's a used aircraft it cannot meet those standards.
Instead, that inspection means the aircraft has been found to meet it's type certificate, or otherwise properly-altered status,

Actually George, that's exactly what I meant, Yes, all of us with an understanding of aircraft, knows when you start an engine for the first time, the standards of "new" is diminished. Yet if an aircraft that I have worked on, and is involved in an incident, or accident, That's where my FSDO will start. That's what I meant by a convoluted, standard of new.

[flyguy]

As for missing logs: It is my personal belief that "missing" logs are actually "deliberately destroyed" logs. Someone is hiding something. The ONLY case I've found bla bla bla

JU JES CAN'T ALYAWS KEEP FR UM STEPPIN IT CANJU? ONE FELLER HYEAR JES TOLE JEW HOW HE LOS THE SPEAKED OF BOOKS , , SO ITSA ONE FER US AN NONE FER U NOW IMA GONNA MAKE IT TOO FER US AN NONE FER YOU TOO

I had a grass strip 1/4 mile down the road from my house in Platte county MO. I would land there then taxi down the road and park in my big wide driveway. It was early December and brewing up a storm. I had 93D parked in there in the drive in front of my shop while I was doing some engine work on the C-145. I had most of the new engine cylinders and other parts along with the new Narco radios and transponder there in my shop. In my file cabinet were the logs for my '52 B - N2693D, all the 337s and documents pertaining to the history of 93D. I came home from work that evening and lit a fire in the big barrel stove to start getting the place warm so I could work there. I noticed my wood pile was getting low and as a WX system was moving in I decided to go to the woods where i had firewood cut and get a pickup load. Coming back up the road toward my house I see a pretty big fire and from the angle of my view I thought one of the neighbor's houses was on fire. NOPE! It was MY SHOP! A 30 X 40 wood frame shop makes one hell of a fire. The VFD, of which I was a member, dragged the plane away into a field across the road and saved tour house! The shop and everything in it was a total loss. In my shop was a Classic 58 VW, a vintage cedar strip boat and outboard motor, several guns, my $1500.00 radio stack and $3000.00 worth of Continental engine and Cessna parts. You know what hurt the most - - losing those log books. I was the 3rd owner of '93D and all the first flight test by the Cessna test pilot and the logged flight from Wichita to Lawrence KS. It stayed there until 1959 then a new buyer moved it to Atchison KS. During those first 7 years it's maintenance was all done by Delbert Earhart who was a cousin to Amelia Earhart! Those details were priceless and could never be recovered. It was a devastating thing to lose all the tools, guns, and parts but the things that were irreplaceable were't even covered by the insurance.

So George not all generalities cover all generalities

[c170b53]

Ah...at last the voice of..ah whatever, it's been too long.

[LBPilot82]

I had great luck with Red River State Bank. They specialize in aircraft loans and worked out great for me.

As for the airplane, the advise given here is great. Take your time and buy the best quality plane you can find for the money you want to spend. When it comes to both mods and condition, it is always cheaper to buy one finished than do it yourself... at least that has been my experience. Don't let anyone tell you that you need a B model if you want to modify it in the future. The straight 170 may have some slight restrictions on what can be done for upgrades, but the A model is just as capable of upgrades as the B. I believe they sell for cheaper because of some myth that the later models are better which deters people from the early models. This leaves the door open for those who know the differences are too subtle to make much of a difference. I have yet to see anyone do something in a B that cannot be done in an A. In fact, a big drawback of the B is not being able to slip with full flaps. Did I mention I own an A model???

[DaveF]

Visually from the outside I can't yet tell the difference between the two planes. So I have not been swayed much that way but I have been bitten by the interior and panel on an A model. It's perfect in pretty much every way that I think I want, now the exterior needs help, mainly just a paint job (Most likely in RED!), pretty straight bird I feel like. Then spotted a B model that I convinced myself was doable (price wise). Interior is wonder and panel is wonderful I am sure but not "it", for lack of a better word. Probably would have been "it" had I seen it first but the allure of owning the 'B' model drives me crazy. I am loosing sleep over this and my job is suffering. Is this normal?

"Laugh Out Loud" is an overused expression these days, but it applies here. Yes, this is normal! My wife still makes fun of me for the way I acted when I was shopping for my first airplane. Losing sleep, cold sweats, irrational behavior, etc. That was 20 years ago and your post was so real that I, well, laughed out loud. I know you think every airplane you look at is your last chance, but it isn't. Really, it isn't.

Take lots of pictures of any candidates you see and post them here. You'll be amazed at the excellent information you'll get.

[W.J.Langholz]

For every "One " you find......there are 10 more out there that you haven't seen.

and when you finally buy one ........the next door neighbor will say, "Josh, I would sold you mine had I know you were looking for one".......

Just take your time, when it right , pull the trigger and don't look back.



W.

[DaveF]

.......the next door neighbor will say, "Josh, I would sold you mine had I know you were looking for one".......

And that's how I bought mine. I'd been looking all over the country but one day my mechanic called and said, "Stop looking, I'm currently annualing the airplane you want."

[juredd1]

Folks I really appreciate the advice I am receiving here I am having problems keeping all the names and posts straight so I hope not offend if I don't name you directly.

Bruce,
I am located in North Central, Arkansas. About 5 miles SE of the small town of Jasper. Me and my uncle have a 1700 foot grass strip (recently extended another 300 feet but not yet usable).

DaveF,
It's nice to know to know that someone else had similar issues but I am not wishing it on anyone.

WJ,
That is also my fear is that I am driving all around the country to look at these and one will show up in my backyard (Not literally as me and my uncle make up probably 30% of the pilots in this county). Did that on a hay baler last summer. Drove 3+ hours one way to pick up a baler and on the way back on that very day there was one parked by the road not 5 miles from my house. He said he just put it out that morning after I went through.


All,

I understand what you are telling me and it all makes sense. I know I can't rush this but I also know there is that remote chance that I could be blessed with an awesome plane in the first two months. It's possible that I have found that one already. Well that one that I can afford, as I have found many other ones that I can't talk my employer into giving me a big enough raise so I can fund it. Thanks again for you that have post some lender options, most appreciated as I will be in contact with them if my current second option falls through.

I am pretty much looking on barnstomers and tradeaplane. Are there other good classifieds that i should look at?

Justin

[bigrenna]

delete