Engine Paint Colors

Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:57 am

Did a quick search and couldn't find this easily.

What color paint was used on various parts of the engine ie valve covers, cylinders, crankcase?

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:24 pm

In a past discussion here, the valve covers were determined to have been painted black.

Not sure about the other colors. Am currently going thru a lot of TCM Service Bulletins, will keep a look out for that information.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:13 pm

Covers, cylinders, and accessories are painted black. Cases, sumps are painted gray.
At the recent convention I looked at the most beautiful freshly overhauled O300 I'd seen in a while. Less than 10 hours on it. The owner plans to restore the entire airplane, and he has an excellent example which should put him in the awards when he finishes. But his new engine was painted by the overhaul shop in modern Continental gold. That will be a points deduction by a knowlegeable judge. I didn't say anything at the time out of courtesy, but I'll bet he's in for a moment of disappointment when he realizes the shop so easily could have made it the correct color. (The overhaul manual does not specify which colors, but does specify Alodine treatments which are commonly gold in color. This may be one reason TCM eventually went to a gold engine enamel on later engines. There is one mention that "when" gold enamel is used, each coat must be separately baked. For no other reason than this I'd choose original black/gray colors.)

While on this subject, I'd encourage folks to avoid getting into situations where they are "re-inventing" the wheel. There are lots of modern processes that have their advantages in certain modern applications. But just because a new process exists, doesn't mean it should be applied to everything ever made. An example that comes to mind is the number of engine mounts I've seen lately that their owner's proudly display with the comments that they have been powder-coated.
Powder coating is a process by which a part is blasted clean, then electrostatically charged, sprayed with fine plastic powder (in the desired color) and then baked in an oven to fuse the plastic coating. It has a pleasing, fresh-painted look even years later. Plastic is a great barrier to the elements when it's not mechanically disturbed and it will retain that nice glossy look.
Unfortunately, powder-coating will also allow the metal beneath to crack and the surface may still remain unblemished. A critical weld or tube may crack and not be revealed. This is not a place to use powder coatings. Neither are cylinders or other engine cases, in my opinion.
There are several reputable engine "re-builders" who generously powder-coat their work in all the colors of the rainbow as a marketing scheme. Powder coating insulates a hot part from releasing it's heat to the atmosphere. I don't think that's a good idea, and if it's not part of an FAA-approved process then it's probably illegal. I don't know of any engine manufacturer who approves it.
So, be wary of new things that haven't been thoroughly tested and approved for their purposes,...including protective coatings.

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:18 pm

Grey and black sound nice. Am assuming it was flat black. Is there a Cont Grey? My Bendix magnetos don't appear to have ever been painted black. Were all accesories painted black?

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:47 am

Black it is then although it make no difference on my hodge podge of an airplane.

Another tip: Don't paint the inside of the valve cover like some Bozo did on mine. Gave my heart skipped a beat the first time I changed the oil when I saw all that gold and silver specks floating in the oil. Turns out it was just the paint pealing off the inside of the valve covers.

ohanley · Post by **ohanley** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:54 am

Seems to me there is a lot of heat in the engine compartment.

Does it require a special type of paint?

Or can I just grab a can of Krylon and go to work?

What kind (Brand and Type) do you recommend.

Olan

N5756C

zero.one.victor · Post by **zero.one.victor** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:15 am

Having just re-read the "explanation of non-authentic items" in the "judging rules" as published in the #1/2002 170 News,I don't believe the color of the engine is a deduct. Under engine,all that is listed in "any engine not listed in the type data sheet". Unless George's "knowledgable judge" grades strictly by whim,& not by the published rules,I don't think a Continental Gold engine will be a problem.
I've looked at a LOT of 170's,and have seen few that would not be nicked by the judges for non-authentic items: "any paint scheme that does not agree with the original Cessna paint scheme for the year of the subject aircraft"--George,the photo that I've seen of your airplane comes to mind."instruments:late model gyro's,for example","instrument panel:any deviation from original design","an authentic paint scheme with the wrong size & location of the registration numbers","upholstery:materials,color or design other than original".
I'm not too sure that I've ever seen ANY totally original 170! Which is just fine,in my opinion. Even personalized and modified,any 170 is still a classic!
My engine,by the way,was overhauled by a shop named Flying Colors Aviation,one of their options is to paint your engine any color of the rainbow that the customer wants. I specified "Continental Gold",cuz I like the way it looks--clean,servicable,and businesslike. I think black & grey is ugly. But that's just my opinion.

Eric

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:04 pm

You're correct, Eric, in that the TIC170A rules don't mention engine paint. But those are only our association rules,....not the rules used by the rest of the world. As I said, a knowlegeable judge,....looking for a tie-breaking item to base an award upon, ...will deduct points for a non-original paint scheme. The EAA judges are considerably more demanding than our association is. If the questioner (who is clearly concerned since he asked) is getting ready to paint a new engine,...and he intends to have it look original,...it should be gray and black. Glossy black, BTW. Any good paint intended for engines or metal should work. The TCM Overhaul manual specifies the process, and TCM might actually sell the correct shades. So does Tempo.

I'm not sure how to read your msg regarding my airplane. Just to clarify it, however,...my airplane is in it's original color and scheme,...all the way down to the engine, landing gear, springs, and cad-plating. It's instruments are original, as is it's instrument panel, from AN-gyros (made by General Motors, BTW) all the way down to it's placards. (A non-original modification was done however, in that all the fuses were replaced with pull-type circuit-breakers. There's nothing more maddening than looking around in the dark for a fuse while trying to stay right-side-up. Lucky for me that's not a deduct, but it's not original.) The interior is correct all the way down to type and color of fabrics and stitch-patterns. (Original samples were obtained from beneath old panels during the restoration, and Cessna provided the authenticity documentation. The stitch patterns were found under subsequent re-rags,...as the re-uphostery jobs it got over it's life simply covered over the originals,...which very conveniently provided us with the covered-over original interior to use as a pattern.) The interior shop who did my interior located the original fabric mills and obtained a re-run of the correct wool fabrics. The May 97 issue of Cessna Owner magazine carried the complete story and photos of the extensive restoration.

As for the association rules,...I wouldn't want to be too critical of rules which have enabled my airplane to win awards,...and I sure wouldn't want to claim I know more about judging than the excellent and capable judging committee we have, but the rules also deduct for a heated pitot tube. Incorrectly, I feel. (I don't have a heated pitot, but I don't think the correct one should be a deduct.) The TIC170A judging rules are lenient in some areas like engine colors, and not entirely accurate in others. A Kollsman heated pitot tube was an original, optional item on the type certificate, and no deduct should be made for that item, in my opinion.

But to find a pristine original airplane that is more than 50 years old is quite a feat, and eventually it will be that only museum pieces will be original,...if those,...so the rules should be realistic. I think the TIC170A rules are realistic, but I also think Russ Farris's airplane would be an excellent candidate for taking the Best Original B-model award yet he'd be deducted for his heated pitot, which might send him down into the Custom category.
It's best to just think of the awards as a fun-issue. Not a serious issue. There are some pretty fine airplanes in the Custom category whose owners have a lot more investment in terms of money and time than I do, and they are really great, and useful, and beautiful 170's. Original doesn't mean better. In some cases it means "obsolete".

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:41 pm

Bruce, I'm sure you pointed out to Bozo that the Overhaul Manual Form X30013, specifically warns against painting any interior surface of the engine.
Pg 29: "Caution: Before application of primer and enamel to a part, carefully mask all connection joints and mating surfaces. No primer or enamel is permissible on interior surfaces of any parts contacted by engine lubricating oil after assembly."

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:48 am

Bruce

I have the Delstar formula for the Continental Grey as used in 1946 which is probaly the same at least for the early 170s. I took it by matching the almost new looking engine on an original Aeronca Chief with only 30 hours TT. It had never been apart and had always been hangared. In fact the fabric was original Grade A and still punched in the green when I got the plane in about 1990. Anyway the formula is in AZ and I can't get to it till late September so that might not help you anyway.

Any good one part Acrylic Enamel will hold up pretty well. That's what they used back when. Imron holds up to heat just a little better and withstands solvents better. As George points out a careful masking job is a must. Mothinglike an engine that was painted before assembly.

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:33 am

Relax guys. I need to repaint my valve covers and was just curious. But now the info should be easy to find if somewone does a search for engone color.

My plane is so far from any award. The covers where silver with gold interior. I was going to paint them silver with natural "polished" interior but now I'll make them black cause thats what I have in stock. Surprisingly my case is grey and the cylinders are already black. Do we have an award for most original looking engine, forget the rest of the plane.

And no George I haven't told Bozo about the Overhaul Manual pg 29. Actually after finding the piece of oil control ring in the engine and recently little pieces of unexplained steel which it appears Bozo left in the engine, I'm sure he couldn't read.

BTW George, you never cease to amaze me how you pull out these facts, "Overhaul manual pg 29...." do you have a research assistant?

Dave Clark · Post by **Dave Clark** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:25 pm

Bruce

Do not paint the inside of the valve covers because it can come off.

Curtis Brown · Post by **Curtis Brown** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 5:24 pm

All this talk about judging rules makes what wonder where I can go to find more information. I am restoreing my 1950 170A but have not painted yet, that of course will be last. However, I have made some modifications in order to improve the airplane. I would assume these mods would put me into the custom catagory. The engine overhauler painted my engine Continental grey and gold.
Where can I go to find out what paint schemes and colors where used on 1950 170A's. Also are there names for schemes?
Curtis
N1256D #19810

Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:16 am

No Dave I won't. The Bozo before me did.

Post by **GAHorn** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:00 am

Curtis, there are frequently old magazine ads etc, on ebay regarding 170's that show various schemes, but the most accurate pics are directly from Cessna, who will for a fee provide you not only copies of pics, but also specifics regarding your actual airplane's original scheme and colors. I also have a few B/W photos of most years should you need them. I'll try to post them here soon.

Bruce, is perhaps the interior gold color of your covers an alodine treatment? If so, that would be correct.
And no, I don't have an assistant other than all you fine guys keeping me honest (or closer to it, anyway.)

I do have a memory for trivia. It's the big stuff I forget. (Ask Jamie when the last time I remembered garbage day.)