XP Modifications, IO360 Conversion

[Richgrejo]

I own a small FBO in Guatemala. A customer of mine has owned a 170B for a number of years. He wants to convert his Original to the IO360 engine. Is this still available. If not, which currently available engine mod, woud you reccomend.

thanks

Richard

[bagarre]

The STC is still available from Tom Anderson. His website is http://www.thelandinggearworks.com/

Note, he does not have a PMA to manufacture the motor mount or related parts needed for the conversion. I don't know if this is an issue in your country.
Tom is willing to sell you a copy of the STC along with a copy of the specific plans to manufacture the mount yourself.
There are at least two of us on the forum that are actively performing this conversion. A quick search of the site will give you a wealth of information on the conversion.

Best of luck!

[170C]

Were I to be in a position and have a desire to do an engine conversion the Continental IO-360 with a cs prop would be my hands down choice. Smooth 6 cylinder as opposed to the 4 cylinder Lyc's and more usable horsepower/performance. Nothing wrong with the Lyc's other than they aren't as smooth and friendly to the airframe as the Continentals. I know we have several members with the IO-360 conversions and a couple or more in the middle of making those same conversions. I realize there is no true apples to apples comparison of what one person's conversion costs vs another's due to different engine costs, propeller costs, how much labor is done at shop rates vs ones own labor, etc, etc. But it would be interesting to know what some of these conversions actually cost. I suspect if one makes the decision to do one of these conversions it has to be in order to enjoy the fruits of ones labor and pocket book, not the potential increase in future sales price because I strongly suspect that the conversion itself would, in most cases, exceed the value of the aircraft with the stock engine. Although I have no factual information to support this, I have heard a number of folks throw out figures in the $40,000/$45,000 range for one of these conversions. That added to the market value of the airframe, avionics (in most cases) would likely far exceed what someone would be willing to pay for such an aircraft.

[bagarre]

But it would be interesting to know what some of these conversions actually cost. I suspect if one makes the decision to do one of these conversions it has to be in order to enjoy the fruits of ones labor and pocket book, not the potential increase in future sales price because I strongly suspect that the conversion itself would, in most cases, exceed the value of the aircraft with the stock engine. Although I have no factual information to support this, I have heard a number of folks throw out figures in the $40,000/$45,000 range for one of these conversions. That added to the market value of the airframe, avionics (in most cases) would likely far exceed what someone would be willing to pay for such an aircraft.

I've never considered my airplane to be an investment so I try not to justify it's cost based on resale value.

[Ryan Smith]

$40-$45K is the top end of what these airplanes have been going for lately, period.

I'm just glad that not everyone sees their airplanes an investment, and doesn't believe on letting someone else fix and airplane up nice for them.

[cessna170bdriver]

$40-$45K is the top end of what these airplanes have been going for lately, period.

I'm just glad that not everyone sees their airplanes an investment, and doesn't believe on letting someone else fix and airplane up nice for them.

I don't know what actual selling prices are, but the asking prices for 170's with higher HP engine conversions are about $20-$25K higher than stock airplanes.

[c170b53]

The IO-360 is a 30-35k rebuild, aim higher folks. Yeah maybe a few DY'ers can do it a bit cheaper but not by much.

[Ryan Smith]

$40-$45K is the top end of what these airplanes have been going for lately, period.

I'm just glad that not everyone sees their airplanes an investment, and doesn't believe on letting someone else fix and airplane up nice for them.

I don't know what actual selling prices are, but the asking prices for 170's with higher HP engine conversions are about $20-$25K higher than stock airplanes.

I was a little vague. I was referring to a top-end stock airplane going for that...meaning that the cost of the engine conversion easily doubles what one starts with. No small undertaking, but a very cool one nonetheless.

[bagarre]

The IO-360 is a 30-35k rebuild, aim higher folks. Yeah maybe a few DY'ers can do it a bit cheaper but not by much.

A zero time engine isn't a requirement for the engine conversion. There are plenty of very good mid time motors out there that will do just fine.

It's possible to do the IO-360 conversion for what about what it would cost to overhaul your existing O-300.

[flyboy122]

Richard,

Is the airplane N registered? If not, the STC will need to be validated by your local ANAC/DGAC. The VSTC process is not as bad as a VTC, but it still requires some effort on the part of the STC holder, as well as a local champion to push it through in country. For 1 engine install on an airplane with a 5 digit value, that may be a tough sell.

Good Luck,
DEM

[blueldr]

bagarre,

If anyone can do a conversion to a TCM IO-360 engine in a C-170 airplane for the cost of an O-300 overhaul, I'll kiss their ass in front of the flagpole and give them six hours to draw a crowd! Ask me. I've done it and the labor was all mine at no cost.

[hilltop170]

Having done an engine conversion or two, my guess is the total cost of a Continental IO-360 conversion in a C-170 is $60,000 to $65,000 if you pay someone else to do it.

Dick, I would not take that bet.

[falco]

$40-45K in 2000. That's what I remember. You'll want to do some things like move the battery to the back to partially compensate for constant speed prop, which will make you want a baggage door so you can get to the battery. The fuel tanks have to come out and get some fittings welded on. Header tank, shutoff valve, prop control, governor, a bunch of different brackets for all the engine controls which are all different lengths than the stock ones so you gotta replace all that. Want a vacuum pump? (maybe not in 2014, but in 2000 I did.) Bunch of electrical stuff. Alternator instead of generator. Fuel pump. Some minor mods to the cowling. Fancy engine wants an engine monitor.

Count the ounces -- they turn into pounds pretty fast. Its a big job. It will burn a lot of money.


But 14 years and 1000+ hours later it is still a really sweet ride.

[blueldr]

Admittedly, the TCM IO-360 makes the C-170 the airplane it can be. I did all my own work (almost) and I really did not keep an accurate accounting of all the money I spent, but if I were to do it again, I believe I'd figure at about $25,000 as a minimum but probably more.

[GAHorn]

Admittedly, the TCM IO-360 makes the C-170 the airplane it can be. I did all my own work (almost) and I really did not keep an accurate accounting of all the money I spent, but if I were to do it again, I believe I'd figure at about $25,000 as a minimum but probably more.

...plus the cost of acquiring the engine,...right?

Even a mid time engine outright will likely run $20K, then there's the prop, another $4K, and the engine mount, another $5K....

The amount of money req'd is a victim of inflation, which lately has really been largely ignored. A real pretty, fresh engine/prop conversion will end up $40-45K plus whatever else you do to make the airplane as nice as the fresh FWF. You end up with a $90K airplane that won't legally carry the same payload any faster the same distance for the same costs even if you paint it red, and will not readily sell for more than $60K.

(But I still want it when I win the lottery.)