Engine break in

[Mark Harwood]

I finally got N9183A (1949 170 A)in the air Sunday 1/7/7. I have a rebuilt c145.I have some concerns about break in as there are many opinions around local airports. I flew 2 hours with only one take off and landing and fluctuated RPM between 65% - 75% every 10-15 minutes. The outside air temp was in the 40's on the ground. The oil temp gauge read a bit cool of vertical. As outside air temps are normally 20-30 degrees F this time of year should I have a winterization kit so the oil temp increases for propper break-in? Are they available or do I need to improvise? Has anyone tried leading edge black tape?
I got my insurance through Travers who I learned of through these Forums. Thanks! I only need 3 hours with a CFI and 20 TO's and LD's to meet their requirements. I have more than 3 hours, but only 8 TO & LD's with a CFI. I understand that I should not be doing many TO's and LD's during break in period. So I am paying a CFI to ride around with me until which time the engine is "ready" for us to work on more To's and LD's. Touch and Go's are out of the question right now. Would a landing every 30 minutes be reasonable? How long until the engine is ready for Touch and Go's?

I have had many questions answered by many of you over the last several months in my journey to get this bird back in the air after my burnt piston inMarch 06, only 4 hours flying time after my purchasing the plane. These forums have been invaluable in my journey. I really appreciate the help. I will certainly need more as I work out the bugs! I will try to get some pictures posted in coming weeks! Mark

[Abe]

Mark, Congrats on your new engine...it's nice to have new horses up front...I just had my O-300A rebuilt in my '52 and have 12 hours on it so far....here's what I was told to do to get it through the break in period, I'll start on hours 2-5 as it sounds like that is where you're at...
Hours 2-5:
Gently lean as required in cruise
No leaner than 100-degrees rich of peak EGT
Remain below 4000 MSL (Easy this time of year-Density Altitude)
NO Touch & Goes
Keep Power at 75%

Hours 5-10:
Touch & Goes OK
Change Oil & Filter at Hour 10 (still break-in Oil)

Hours 10-25:
Lean as necessary in flight (typically 100-125 degrees rich of peak)

Hour 25:
Change Oil & Filter & if oil consumption has stabilized, service with recommended oil for normal use

Hope this helps and I know there are allot of folks here on this forum that will help you also...good luck

[sphillips]

follow the recommendations of the rebuilder.

[GAHorn]

Too late to influence it now since you're already up and flying, but for cooler weather/lower oil temps, use lighter weight oil. I recommend SAE-40/Grade 80 down to zero-F, and SAE 30/Grade 65 for colder temps. Non-dispersant for break-in until the cylinder heads cool off (probably about 5-10 hours, then an oil change to dispersant oil.)
Use SAE 50/Grade 100 in summer.

Use muliti-grade oils only if you live in really cold climates and cannot perform engine pre-heat.

(This will provoke lots of counter-discussion, I imagine. Some cylinder/engine rebuilders recommend Phillips multi. If you research it, you'll find they have monetary reasons in the form of discounts/rebates/free-oil/etc. when they make such recommendations. Personally, I don't feel multi-grade oils are good for engines except as I've already stated due to lack of preheat. I've already addressed the reasons in other posts, ... I'll be happy to accept a phone call if you want to discuss it in further detail.)

Winteriation kits are unnecessary above 20-F in my opinion, but it'd be nicer to your engine if oil changes were more frequent due to accumulated water. (Frozen water in a hydraulic lifter is not a good thing.)

[davevramp]

No idling, on start up get oil pressure and go to 1200 rpm, this pushes the rings out to the cylinder wall and does not let the heat get to the cam and wipe it out. Just be ready to go before you start your engine

good luck

dave

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Winteriation kits are unnecessary above 20-F in my opinion, but it'd be nicer to your engine if oil changes were more frequent due to accumulated water. (Frozen water in a hydraulic lifter is not a good thing.)

George, I can tell your from Texas. If it's 30°F out I doubt your engine oil will get hot enough (180°) to boil off the water without some winterization.

I would at least cover the rectangular air intake above the carb intake. You can use a standard round inspection cover or duck (duct) tape.

While some would say you want to run the engine for long periods uninterrupted I wouldn't be afraid to make 3 to 4 landings in an hour period spaced out with hard running between. I would make the landings short and hold some power and avoid long idling periods on the ground.

[ak2711c]

Lycon claims they put a new engine in the test cell and fire it up, as soon as it is warmed up they open it up wide open (or max continuous of course) and leave it there for 2-3hours. When it is done it is broke in. I was skeptical but after installing a O-360 on my Dad's cub from them it never burnt a drop of oil. I still ran break in oil for 25 hours in it, but it used about 1/2 a quart in all that time. So the rings had already seated during there test run. I guess they have been doing it long enough they ought to know what it takes.
Shawn

[cessna170bdriver]

See http://www.eci2fly.com/pdf/BI07-2005.pdf for ECI's explanation of the difference between run-in and break-in; and their reccommendations on break-in of their cylinders. I used their cylinders and their break-in procedures, and at around 65 hours I'm happy with the results.

Miles

[GAHorn]

Winteriation kits are unnecessary above 20-F in my opinion, but it'd be nicer to your engine if oil changes were more frequent due to accumulated water. (Frozen water in a hydraulic lifter is not a good thing.)

George, I can tell your from Texas. If it's 30°F out I doubt your engine oil will get hot enough (180°) to boil off the water without some winterization.
.

Bruce, you're not fooling anybody! You already knew I was from Texas!!!
(The reason I recommended shorter oil changes is due to the possibility of water build up in the oil. Winterization kits don't really address the issue well. We don't have adequate instrumentation to deal with this issue, unfortunately.) IMHO

[Mark Harwood]

Thanks for input! I am running SAE 40. Engine builder recommends staying with straight weight oil after break in George. I am not qualified to debate that topic but I know where you stand from reading old forums. I plan to do as the builder and you advised. The engine came to me with 2 hr on it in test cell. They ran it for 10 minutes at each 1200,1800 and 2100 RPM's, then 30 minutes at 2450, 5 min at 2700, 60 min at 2450 then 5 min at 650. Oil temp at 195 for the 2450 and 2700 times. Builder sent instructions for first 2 hr that are an excerpt from TCM service bulletin. It reads that after first 2hr flying, engine can be operated in normal service in accordance with flight manual. A couple different local mechanics have discouraged me from practicing take offs and landings for 25 hrs. Of course I would rather not have to pay a CFI to joy ride with me for 25 hours before working on take offs and landings. I was on the page of a few an hour as you thought Bruce. I will place a call to the builder tomorrow and make sure he is good with that. Regarding the winterization, does the engine need to run to a certain temp for the rings to seat properly? Mark

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George

I'm not following you. A winterization kit will raise the oil temperature to a level that will burn off any water vapor.

I understand why you recommend more frequent oil changes when the oil temps don't get warm enough to get ride of the water.

(The reason I recommended shorter oil changes is due to the possibility of water build up in the oil. Winterization kits don't really address the issue well. We don't have adequate instrumentation to deal with this issue, unfortunately.) IMHO

What do you mean winterizations kits don't really address this issue?
What do you mean we don't have adequate instrumentation to deal with this issue?
What issue?

What am I missing.

[N3243A]

(This will provoke lots of counter-discussion, I imagine. Some cylinder/engine rebuilders recommend Phillips multi. If you research it, you'll find they have monetary reasons in the form of discounts/rebates/free-oil/etc. when they make such recommendations.

Interesting take. I assume you are referencing ECI's recommendation to use Phillips XC 20W-50 for break in and continuous use. After having spent close to $5000 on new ECI cyls, I have yet to see any Phillips oil discounts, rebates or especially free oil... Nada, zip, nothing. What do you offer for proof of this "monetary alliance" between ECI and Phillips? I'll take free oil if I can get. How do I sign up???

Bruce in AK and -30F right now in Wasilla

[GAHorn]

You're not missing anything at all. My feeling is that the winterization kits (which block the oil pan inlet and half the cylinder inlets) do not regulate engine/oil temps well. They are either absent...so no effect, or they are present... so the cold engine warms up then has no increased cooling when needed. It's an all-or-nothing kind of poor-man's solution.
A good solution would be an oil cooler with a verna-therm, but that's not in the offing for this engine.

What issue? The oil temp issue. The oil temp gauges for this installation are crude and inaccurate*, and even if they were not, there's no oil temperature regulation capability.

*Some folks believe that an oil temp of 180 is required to "boil" off water. Without getting into that... some operators find their oil temps excessive while others find theirs inadequate. Yet many of these folks have identical installations in similar climates. I believe that's an instrumentation inconsistency. I believe it's also a cooling baffle inconsistency. So many variables. Lots of opinions. No accurate data.

Fly frequently. Change oil frequently. Use single grade oil. Thin in winter. Thick in summer. Fix those baffles. IMHO

[GAHorn]

...Interesting take. I assume you are referencing ECI's recommendation to use Phillips XC 20W-50 for break in and continuous use. After having spent close to $5000 on new ECI cyls, I have yet to see any Phillips oil discounts, rebates or especially free oil... Nada, zip, nothing. What do you offer for proof of this "monetary alliance" between ECI and Phillips? I'll take free oil if I can get. How do I sign up???

Bruce in AK and -30F right now in Wasilla

I wasn't talking about free oil for YOU. I was talking about freebies/rebates for the engine suppliers. It's pretty common for an oil company to offer rebates to engine suppliers in order to promote the use of their product, in an effort to promote product loyalty. I don't need to offer "proof". I've read it in reliable articles in Aviation Consumer and Preventive Maintenance mags. I believe it. You don't have to.

There are other reasons some retailers/shops promote multi-grade oils: Besides receiving rebates for helping promote the product, they don't have to carry so much stock. Only slightly out of context, but still applicable, here's an excerpt from TBO Advisor (the "convincing" was in the form of rebates to the mfr) :

Oklahoma-based Phillips, meanwhile,
saw a tremendous opportunity in terms of
gaining market share “at the source” (as it
were), by convincing aircraft manufacturers
in nearby Wichita to deliver new planes
with Phillips multigrade oil in the sump.
This was at a time when Wichita was exporting
upwards of 10,000 piston-powered
airplanes a year, many of them twins needing
24 quarts of oil each. Cessna went for
it, because it meant no longer having to
stock and use different grades of oil for
summer and winter, or for California deliveries
versus Minnesota deliveries.
Even today, many engine overhaul
shops use Phillips Type M (multigrade
mineral oil: 20W-50) as the “preferred”
break-in oil—for convenience. They “prefer”
not having to stock numerous grades
of break-in oil.

[hilltop170]

Mark-
Back to your original question, the Continental overhaul manual states in table XII the oil viscosity grade should be 40w to 50w above 40F ambient and 20w to 30w below 40F ambient. Since I have ECI Titans, I have used Phillips 20w-60 as required for warranty preservation. In 9 hours I have not had to add a quart. I am following the ECI break-in procedure exactly, running between 65-75%.

I started my break-in with 35F ambient temp. My engine builder taped-off the rectangular hole below the prop that supplies cooling air to the sump and also taped-off the two cooling tubes on the rear baffle bulkhead that supply cooling air to the oil strainer area on the back of the engine. My oil temp rose just above 180F as indicated by a new EI digital oil temp guage. I also taped off one duct tape width on each main cowl intake which brought all six cylinder head temps up to + or - 350F on an EI UBG-16 engine monitor. If you tape off the cowl intakes stay close to the airport until you know how the cylinder head temps are going to behave.

Personally, I would not do touch and goes for the first 10 hours but would get the instructor out of the plane asap after that, unless he is still needed, of course. The purpose of the break-in is to get the rings seated to the cylinder walls and the things that will do that are proper manifold pressure and rpm. If not done correctly, the cylinders will glaze and will burn oil forever until they are removed, honed, and broke-in all over again. Do it right the first time and you won't have to do it over. Touch and goes do not begat a good break-in.
Good luck!