800 X 6 tires

jatkins · Post by **jatkins** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:26 pm

I have searched the past forms, and have found lots on 800 tires, but not the answer to my question , so here goes,

I know the 800 tires are listed on the type certificate, but now I am being told the 800 tires on the type certificate are for Goodyear wheels only, as goodyears were on the 170 when originally certified.

So does anyone have, or can anyone point me in the correct direction for the correct slouation ? I am seeking approval or justification , for the 800 tires on the cleveland wheels.

Thanks John

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:12 pm

Wow that's a new one to me I hadn't noticed that before. I've got 800x6 tires on my cleavland wheels and I've seen a lot of others, but I know that doesn't help.

There is an STC available from our Association, look under the members only page.

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:05 am

Who is asking this?

Actually the TCDS says that 6.00-6, 7.00-6, 8.00-6 can be used with either model of Goodyear hub. So the real question is what authority do you have to use the Cleveland wheels on the plane.

That is where you will find your answer. If an STC the STC should state what size tires are approved. If approved on a 337 then that should be where it is.

But I'll bet you won't find it either place because no one at that time was that anal to include the obvious on their approvals.

The association doe not own an STC for this. We may have a copy of the Cleveland STC in our historical record collection or a copy of a 337 that specifically calls out the 8.00-6 tires.

I happen to have a copy of all the association historical paperwork (STC and 337 copies) so I'll do some research in the next day or so and see what I can turn up.

jatkins · Post by **jatkins** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:18 am

The mechanic working on my 170B is asking this question.
I do have the STC for the cleveland installation kit when it was installed about 20 years ago.

I looked up the part numbers for the 170 wheels 40-97A , the wheel halves are , 161-03000 inner and 162-02700 outer, with bearings part number 214-00200.

The C-180 is approved , with 800 X 6 tires.Wheel part number 40-75D,
the wheel half part numbers are the same, 161-03000 inner and 162-02700 outer. and the same bearing part numbers.The 2 wheel assemblies do have differant disc part numbers.

Not withstanding all of this I guess I need , to be able to prove it is OK ,
for the 170 ?

I hope that some one out there has already figured out the answer to this ?

Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:29 pm

Your mechanic is asking a question that lots of people have taken for granted for many years. There may not be a black and white answer.

Do you have the installation instructions as part of the STC? Does the STC specify any size tire? If the instructions don't specify any tire than even a 6.00-6 would not be legal yet we know that makes no sense.

My 337 for the STC only states that the Clevelands where installed per the instructions. I don't have a copy of them in my own aircraft records. I will be looking for a copy today in the associations paper library.

You say the 180 paperworks says the 8.00-6s are OK? And that the 170 and the 180 use the same wheel halves? If so that would indicate the wheel halves can accommodate the 8.00-6 tire safely and the TCDS allows the use of the 8.00-x tire.

Here is another technical question I wonder if your mechanic would even think to ask. What approval is there to use a 6 ply tire? None that I know of because the TCDS specifies 4 ply tires, yet I can't say I've ever seen a 4 ply tire on an airplane.

This tire size verses Cleveland wheels that your mechanic is asking and my question of the ply count is probably an example of a question in the category of those best left unasked.

Ever heard that it is possible to ground any and all airplanes at any time for being unairworthy. This is the type of question that would get many.

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:42 pm

It's nice that your mechanic is being that fastidious, but surely this is something that he can get handled with a field approval

Does your Cleveland STC specify a tire, I'm curious?

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:51 pm

I've just reviewed the Cleveland STC #SA13GL and supporting documents. This is the STC to install Cleveland wheels and brakes on Cessna 120,140, 170, 170A and B, 172s, 175s, 180s and 182s replacing the Goodyear wheels and brakes on all models except those with cross wind landing gear.

No where in the STC, installation instructions or drawings is there a tire specification or limitation. This package of documents is available from the association and is labeled ___ 182 Wheels, Cleveland & Brakes (170-A-B)* . . .$11.00

Since there is no specifications and there are no limitations of the STC allowing replacement of the Goodyear wheels with the Cleveland models it could be argued that the specifications and limitations of the tires are unchanged from the TCDS. This is my opinion as well as that of the IA located in the hanger outside my office.

If your IA does not agree and requires tires to be specified then there are no tires that can be used with the Cleveland wheels since there is none specified. An unlikely scenario.

jatkins · Post by **jatkins** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

THANKS Bruce,
I will bring this to his attention, I hope this will satisfy him.

What we are looking at , is The Type certificate says 600 , 700, or 800 tires. The cleveland STC does not specify ANY tire sizes , so therefore
the tire size(s) on the Type Certificate apply ???

I hope he sees the light.

John

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:31 pm

Interesting.
If there is no tires size specified, could you use that as a justification for 850x6s?

jatkins · Post by **jatkins** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:40 pm

The 600, 700 and 800 tires are specified on the type certificate, just not on the Cleveland wheel stc.

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:09 pm

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:Interesting.
If there is no tires size specified, could you use that as a justification for 850x6s?

Anything could be argued. What argument would you use that one should be able to disregard the basic TCDS specifications and limitations?

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:49 pm

I'll have to do some digging, and untill my 800s wear out next year it's not really a big deal, but I'm wondering if those same wheels, tires, and brakes are used on C180/185 with 850s approved then perhaps my mechanic could use that as ammo for getting the 337 approved. Plus I'll use whatever other ammo I can get from the association

kloz · Post by **kloz** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:35 pm

If the 600, 700 and 800 tires are specified on the type certificate, and the cleveland wheels are STC for the airplane, then they for the tires, on the type certificate.

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:23 pm

Well I've just rumaged through a couple other TCDs on the C180 5A6, and the 185 3A24. I haven't actually looked at any other TCDs before, hmmmmmmm.

Anyway, unless I just missed something they don't actually list any tires at all on these TCDs, nor wheels, skis, etc. There's just a bunch of different propellors and floatplane specs. Stark contrast to A-799. Oh well, whatever

I'll check out the Husky, I've heard it's certified for a bunch of stuff so I wonder what it's data sheet looks like.

Jr.CubBuilder · Post by **Jr.CubBuilder** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:43 pm

Yup all kinds of tire sizes specified, weird.