Does anybody know anything about installing cessna 206 seats in the rear of a 1952 170b.
What all is entailed. Is an STC available for this? If so any idea how much much for it? Thanks
170b rear seat conversion to 206 seats
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
The 206 uses individual rear seats on individual seat tracks. It will be a major alteration requiring Form 337 and Field Approval or STC (no STC exists to my knowlege.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10327
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Tom
You might be interested in 2 -337 documents the association has in its historical paperwork library.
#131- Seat C206 rear installation has a short description of how someone installed shortened 185 seat rails and doublers and used left and right Cessna 206 intermediate seats. There isn't much but part numbers and a very short description of the work don so don't expect much.
Then #124 Seat Belt rear installation describes how they used various Cessna parts to install the necessary seat belts for the same airplane. Again not much but part numbers and a short description.
It would be a start if your serious.
They are available from association headquarters.
You might be interested in 2 -337 documents the association has in its historical paperwork library.
#131- Seat C206 rear installation has a short description of how someone installed shortened 185 seat rails and doublers and used left and right Cessna 206 intermediate seats. There isn't much but part numbers and a very short description of the work don so don't expect much.
Then #124 Seat Belt rear installation describes how they used various Cessna parts to install the necessary seat belts for the same airplane. Again not much but part numbers and a short description.
It would be a start if your serious.
They are available from association headquarters.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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mod cessna
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:10 am
Maybe you are thinking of the F. Atlee Dodge folding rear jump seats. These are the best deal going for fold up rear seats. Hardly a Cessna in Alaska seams to be without them. http://www.fadodge.com/
I have seen the 206 style rear seats and prefer the Atlee seats. Try to get the 206 seats approved these days. Atlee seats are STC'd. Maybe a member will post a picture of their fold up seats installed.
I have seen the 206 style rear seats and prefer the Atlee seats. Try to get the 206 seats approved these days. Atlee seats are STC'd. Maybe a member will post a picture of their fold up seats installed.
If you're seriously considering installing C-206 seats in the rear of your
C-170, I sure hope you have something more powerful than the stock engine. A stock engined C-170 is really pretty marginal even with a stock rear seat installed when loaded with four adults. I don't know the weight of C-206 seats, but the stock rear C-170 seat weighs 30 pounds. I believe I'd be looking to reduce that weight as much as possible if I was contemplating a seat change.
C-170, I sure hope you have something more powerful than the stock engine. A stock engined C-170 is really pretty marginal even with a stock rear seat installed when loaded with four adults. I don't know the weight of C-206 seats, but the stock rear C-170 seat weighs 30 pounds. I believe I'd be looking to reduce that weight as much as possible if I was contemplating a seat change.
BL
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Joe Moilanen
- Posts: 600
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:45 am
BAS's STC for jump seats has been sold to a new company. The web site is http://cessnajumpseats.com/. BAS is still at http://www.basinc-aeromod.com/, but they now only list harnesses and tail pull handles as products.
Best Regards,
John
Best Regards,
John
John Renwick
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
Joe,Joe Moilanen wrote:My FSDO wouldn't field approve Atlee Dodge seats for my 170B. Unless Atlee has obtained an STC for the 170 since I last checked, it could be a problem down here in the lower 48. BAS, the same company that makes the shoulder harnesses, has STC'd folding rear seats similar to Atlee's.
Joe
My Atlee Dodge jump seats came with STC number SA02008AK. The date on the 337 I registered the STC with was 7-29-2004. The date on the STC was 12-21-1993.
If you need copies of the paper work I will send them to you.
John E. Barrett
aka. Johneb
Sent from my "Cray Super Computer"
aka. Johneb
Sent from my "Cray Super Computer"
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Joe Moilanen
- Posts: 600
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:45 am
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hilltop170
- Posts: 3485
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 6:05 pm
Kenmore sells the STC for installing 206 middle seats in the rear of the C-180 and C-185 for $100.00. The STC does not include the C-170.
I called Kenmore last year and asked about using their STC on a C-170. They said, "The 170 is not included but the rear cockpit area is exactly the same size as the 180 so go ahead, it's ok with us if you can get an FAA inspector to sign it off."
Using the STC as a basis, my IA asked his FAA inspector if he would approve it and it was no problem. The installation was per the Kenmore STC except installed in a C-170. One additional structural angle p/n 0541130 same as 0742115-16 has to be installed under the floor on the bulkhead at the front side of the baggage compartment on land planes. Float planes already have the extra angle. Outer seat belt attach brackets p/n 0711084-15 and -16 have to be installed on the fuselage like on the C-185. Inboard seat belt attach points are co-located on bracket p/n 0711083-1 at the existing rear seat rear attach point in the middle of the floor. Kenmore sells the brackets. The tracks are standard Cessna p/n 0511000-14.
It is a very good mod. The seats fit perfectly and weigh 10lb each for a total of 20lb, 10lb LIGHTER than the stock seat. They can be removed and installed in about 30 seconds each, no log book entry is required for re-installation, and one seat or the other can be installed if only one seat is needed.
There are three different basic styles of 206 middle seats; short backed, small bottom utility seats that don't recline but fold flat and the full sized seats with either three-position recliners or infinite-position recliners.
In my opinion, the full size with three-position recliners are the preferred 206 middle seats. They are exactly the same size as the 206 front seats. They just have shorter frames which make the seats sit lower than the front. They are very comfortable, especially with headrests when reclining. BAS and Atlee seats don't recline. The hat rack shelf has to be removed to recline the 206 seats. When the seats are taken out, the seat belts make handy cargo tiedowns since they stay in the plane.
The biggest problem is finding a set of 206 middle seats to use. This STC has put a drain on their availability. Most places just laugh when you call. But if you have a set or know where to get a set, it's the best of the seat mods out there especially if you are concerned about your rear seat passenger's comfort. They are real Cessna seats and they give more leg room and comfort than Atlee's or BAS'. Depending on whether you want the utility or full size also makes a difference. I have seen prices anywhere from $100 each to $900 each with around $500 each being average.
If anybody has a set for sale, I'll take them.
C-206 aft (5th/6th) seats are not included in the STC. They sit too low to work well in C-170/180/185 installations and the seat track width is narrower than the 206 middle seats. Although the thought is tempting because there are lots of them available, I tried one out and it just doesn't work. You feel like you're sitting in a hole and your knees end up in your face.
C-210 middle seats are the same as C-206 middle seats except the track width is about a couple inches narrower than the C-206 seat's 12 1/4" track width. If you are getting approval on a 337 anyway and have a set of C-210 middle seats, the track width difference should not matter and is probably easier to install. I don't know what availability is on C-210 middle seats.
C-206 middle seat installed with a C-206 aft (5th/6th) seat for comparison. Note seat tracks.
I called Kenmore last year and asked about using their STC on a C-170. They said, "The 170 is not included but the rear cockpit area is exactly the same size as the 180 so go ahead, it's ok with us if you can get an FAA inspector to sign it off."
Using the STC as a basis, my IA asked his FAA inspector if he would approve it and it was no problem. The installation was per the Kenmore STC except installed in a C-170. One additional structural angle p/n 0541130 same as 0742115-16 has to be installed under the floor on the bulkhead at the front side of the baggage compartment on land planes. Float planes already have the extra angle. Outer seat belt attach brackets p/n 0711084-15 and -16 have to be installed on the fuselage like on the C-185. Inboard seat belt attach points are co-located on bracket p/n 0711083-1 at the existing rear seat rear attach point in the middle of the floor. Kenmore sells the brackets. The tracks are standard Cessna p/n 0511000-14.
It is a very good mod. The seats fit perfectly and weigh 10lb each for a total of 20lb, 10lb LIGHTER than the stock seat. They can be removed and installed in about 30 seconds each, no log book entry is required for re-installation, and one seat or the other can be installed if only one seat is needed.
There are three different basic styles of 206 middle seats; short backed, small bottom utility seats that don't recline but fold flat and the full sized seats with either three-position recliners or infinite-position recliners.
In my opinion, the full size with three-position recliners are the preferred 206 middle seats. They are exactly the same size as the 206 front seats. They just have shorter frames which make the seats sit lower than the front. They are very comfortable, especially with headrests when reclining. BAS and Atlee seats don't recline. The hat rack shelf has to be removed to recline the 206 seats. When the seats are taken out, the seat belts make handy cargo tiedowns since they stay in the plane.
The biggest problem is finding a set of 206 middle seats to use. This STC has put a drain on their availability. Most places just laugh when you call. But if you have a set or know where to get a set, it's the best of the seat mods out there especially if you are concerned about your rear seat passenger's comfort. They are real Cessna seats and they give more leg room and comfort than Atlee's or BAS'. Depending on whether you want the utility or full size also makes a difference. I have seen prices anywhere from $100 each to $900 each with around $500 each being average.
If anybody has a set for sale, I'll take them.
C-206 aft (5th/6th) seats are not included in the STC. They sit too low to work well in C-170/180/185 installations and the seat track width is narrower than the 206 middle seats. Although the thought is tempting because there are lots of them available, I tried one out and it just doesn't work. You feel like you're sitting in a hole and your knees end up in your face.
C-210 middle seats are the same as C-206 middle seats except the track width is about a couple inches narrower than the C-206 seat's 12 1/4" track width. If you are getting approval on a 337 anyway and have a set of C-210 middle seats, the track width difference should not matter and is probably easier to install. I don't know what availability is on C-210 middle seats.
C-206 middle seat installed with a C-206 aft (5th/6th) seat for comparison. Note seat tracks.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!