PIREP's on Seat Stop SB?

robert.p.bowen · Post by **robert.p.bowen** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:03 am

My local Cessna dealer has the kit called out in mandatory SEB07-05A, "Secondary Seat Stop," and wants me to schedule my 170B in for its installation. Before I do so, has anyone already implemented the SB?

While Cessna is paying for parts and labor for the entire Cessna fleet without any age limitation, I want to know if this kit impairs the sliding of the seat fore and aft for entry to the airplane. Obviously I want to avoid the old "two steps forward, one step back" effect.

Any PIREP's would be appreciated.

blueldr · Post by **blueldr** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:12 am

I believe that I would tend to take advantage of anything Cessna is providing at no cost. If you don't like the results, the kit can be removed.

Robert Eilers · Post by **Robert Eilers** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:52 am

I wasn't aware Cessna was paying for the seat stops. My review of the drawing of the seat stop caused me to wonder how much more difficult it will make removing the seat. I also seem to recall follow up inspections required after installation.

Post by **GAHorn** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:08 am

I seem to recall the program involves a modification that uses a strap attached to the floor to prevent excessive rearward movement of the seat.

It seems to me to be a crude answer and a telling admission by Cessna that their seat track locking system is less than satisfactory and/or difficult to defend in court.

bsdunek · Post by **bsdunek** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:22 pm

Does anybody remember that the pilot's seat rear stop should be in the forward hole, not the rear one? I have to retrain my AI every year, as it ends up in the rear position after an annual.
When I look at other people's 170's I can't remember ever seeing the stop in the forward hole.
I just trying it (on the ground) it seems to me that with the stop in the right place, I could control the plane if the catch failed. I realize this would come as a suprise and one would have to really concentrate on controlling the plane and not panicking. Also, I constantly check the wear of the holes in the tracks and the pin in the seat.
In any case, I would never discourage use of a secondary stop, like the Safe-T-Stop. The Cessna kit just doesn't look very friendly to me.
Just IMHO.

N2865C · Post by **N2865C** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:06 pm

gahorn wrote:I seem to recall the program involves a modification that uses a cable attached to the floor to prevent excessive rearward movement of the seat.

It seems to me to be a crude answer and a telling admission by Cessna that their seat track locking system is less than satisfactory and/or difficult to defend in court.

I think it's an inertia reel kind of arrangement and I think I read somewhere that there were problems with them and some were recalled........ You can read this and weep......
http://www.lawyersweeklyusa.com/usa/3verdict2001.cfm

mod cessna · Post by **mod cessna** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:27 am

Funny how some people can bad mouth products they have not used or even seen.
Unless you remove your seat all the time it does not hamper entering the aircraft in anyway. The belt portion of the real attaches to the floor with a nut plate and bolt. All you would need is a 7/16" in your pocket if you want to take your seat out.
I also think the seat track system works just fine on properly maintained seats and rails.
Anyways for a free product that is very effective its worth installing. If you find you dislike it then you can always take em out.

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:51 am

mod cessna wrote:...Anyways for a free product that is very effective its worth installing. If you find you dislike it then you can always take em out.

Anyways for a free product that is very effective its worth installing.

What a minute. What have I missed? What is FREE?

N2865C · Post by **N2865C** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:10 pm

mod cessna wrote:Funny how some people can bad mouth products they have not used or even seen.
Unless you remove your seat all the time it does not hamper entering the aircraft in anyway. The belt portion of the real attaches to the floor with a nut plate and bolt. All you would need is a 7/16" in your pocket if you want to take your seat out.
I also think the seat track system works just fine on properly maintained seats and rails.
Anyways for a free product that is very effective its worth installing. If you find you dislike it then you can always take em out.

I just called my local Cessna Service Center and this is what he had to say. He would be happy to install it for me and Cessna will pay for it....... However, he said it was the "hokiest arrangement he had ever seen" and that after looking a closely at the SB, none of his customers have elected to have it installed. He said it was poorly engineered, bulky and prevented you from putting things under the seat..... Note that this is his opinion, not mine, and I really don't have enough info to form my own opinion at this point. I would be interested to hear from others that have any field experience with this unit.

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:18 pm

I still have a couple of unopened bags with the first seat stop kit Cessna came out with about 10-15 years ago and shipped free to all owners. It had to be mounted in the floor and I determined it would be almost impossible to use in an emergency. So I elected not to chop up the floor to install them and glad I didn't. The C.A.P. did on their planes and they were a real pain to use.

I haven't seen the new S.B. kit so have no first hand experience but I have studied the S.B.. This inertial harness on the floor idea does not sound appealing to me. There are other good stops out there. I want a stop that works EVERY time no matter how fast the seat moves and if I want out RIGHT NOW, I don't want anything to impede my exit. I'll keep using what I have. It is a cam-lock design that holds tighter the harder you push against it with the seat. When you want to release it, it's just a fingertip lift and it's free. I have been using this stop since 1985 when it was designed by a couple of friends of mine here in Anchorage. Atlee Dodge sold them for years.

Then a company called Aerostop http://www.aerostop.net/html/models.html (see any similarities?) came along a few years ago and claimed they invented them and also claimed they had applied for a patent. That's interesting considering I have been using one for over 20 years and I personally know the guys that invented it!

Anyway, Aerostop is the only place you can buy one today and they do work very well. You have to specify Cessna or McFarlane rails as the cross-section is different and they don't interchange.

Post by **GAHorn** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:18 am

mod cessna wrote:Funny how some people can bad mouth products they have not used or even seen. ...

And funny how some folks can bad mouth others opinons they do not understand.
I read the SB when it first came out and I thought at the time it's a "hokey", haphazard solution. Like the FAA, I decided that the original design if properly maintained and regularly inspected (like airplanes are supposed to be) is completely adequate.
It's OK for others to disagree with you without criticizing or ridiculing them. (It's taken me many errors and a few years to figure that out myself.)

Chris Christensen · Post by **Chris Christensen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:18 pm

I also use the AeroStop items. Love them. Actually I use two of them on my side. I use the rear one to keep from accidentally shifting backwards, and I have recently put another one on the front of the seat. Reason is that I often do 4-5 hr stretches between San Jose Ca. and McCall Idaho. During the long X-cntry portion I slide the seat back to the rear stop since the forward landing position is TOOO close for comfort on a long stretch, then a few miles out, I can simply pull up to the forward stop and be in the best position for landing.

I have two personal reasons for using seat stops. One was an SRI (Stanfird Research Inst.) 182 that I was moving up closer to the fuel island at Palo Alto some 40+ yrs ago, as soon as it started the seat slid out from under me and I fell over backwards. There I was lying on my back in the rear seat area, (there was no rear seat) unable to reach the throttle, hanging onto the wheel and deparately trying to reach the brakes. Funny how the foward reach required to push the top of the rudder pedals exceeds ones readily available foot extension when lying on your back, pulling the yoke back over your head.

The second, and most serious reason, relates to the death of two people in Idaho some years back. It involved a long time back country pilot and instructor whom I had the pleasure to meet at the first, that I know of, Mountain Flying Seminar in McCall Idaho back in 83. It was put on by the local 99s with Lyn Clark, Sparky Imeson, and Skip Stoffel. As the one version of the story goes, Lyn and a HEAVY passenger were delivering Xmas cookies to the Root Ranch, and while circling for the drop, it is alleged that most likely the passengers seat gave way, slid back, plane crashed and burned.

I rank seat stops right behind the BAS should harness.

nuff said

Chris

johneeb · Post by **johneeb** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:41 pm

johneeb wrote:Here is a picture of the seat rail stops on an airplane that belongs to a man who wears both a Belt and Suspenders.

I like the ease of use of the Aerostop, its hard to blow off using it because of inconvience.

You notice I only bought one.

Johneb

I have since bought a second Aerostop for the co-pilot chair, you can't beat the ease of use. I always brief my passenger in case of an emergency how to release the stop.

4-Shipp · Post by **4-Shipp** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:28 pm

I have not used any supplemental seat stops but I am considering adding them to my 170.

For those of you who have used them for an extended period, have you noticed any reduced wear on the seat rail holes? Would a side benefit to their use be less wear on the seat rail holes and subsequent longer time between AD required rail replacement? Just curious.

Bruce

Post by **GAHorn** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:05 am

How do you get those AeroStops out of the way in case of an evacuation? If they're forward enough to prevent a takeoff accident...they're too far fwd to allow my fat -assets out of the airplane in a hurry.