Aileron gap seals

[Lopez]

The club has a 337/STC listed for these. Which is it though, a 337 or STC? My dad and I are members so I'm thinking about buying the copy and fabricating my own but if is an STC I can't do that. Anyone?

[GAHorn]

The association's listing of 337/stc 's are only copies of paperwork submitted by members who have accomplished such modifications. These can be used to support field approvals for similar installations and provide supporting data for existing installations. The association does not own/sell any STC other than that for installations of differing engine/prop/spinner combinations of the C145/O300.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I can't remember and so I will look tonight in my library of the associations paper.

You are aware that if you make your own you will have to get you own approval and our 337 may be of no value in that effort. But it might give you ideas.

I realized you asked about aileron gap seals but you also might be thinking of flap gap seals as well. A popular thinking with the flap gap seals on a 170 is that they negatively effect the flap performance when extended in the B model.

[N2255D]

A popular thinking with the flap gap seals on a 170 is that they negatively effect the flap performance when extended in the B model.

My "B" had flap gap seals installed when I bought it in 1996. I have never noticed any negative affects with flaps deployed. I haven't flown a "B" model without seals but would imagine that the early 172's I flew before would be the same as the "B".

[Lopez]

Thanks, all I am looking for is a 337 that supports this. I have no intention of installing flap gap seals. As a matter of fact, I'm removing the ones that were on this airplane when I bought it. The wings are in pieces, I may as well make them as nice as I can, right?

[Brad Brady]

I have no intention of installing flap gap seals. As a matter of fact, I'm removing the ones that were on this airplane when I bought it.

Hey Lopez....in my opinion...good call....I've driven both types of 170's....with and without flap gap seals....I prefer the ones with out seals.....Dad's has the seals, but their much more like spoilers than the original flaps were designed to do.... You lose a lot of lift that was designed into the original wing....the air will come under the wing and go over the flap introducing more lift in a slow maneuver than... when the wind is hitting the flap and just spoiling the lift with flap gap seals on.....As for aileron gap seals I have no opinion....but I also know of no such 337 or STC.....just my thoughts.....Brad

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I have no personal experience with flap seals on a 170 only what I've heard and the reasons behind the difference which is exactly what Brad said. And what he said makes sense to me.

The two 337s the association has for aileron gap seals reference a STC number SA256NW, one refers of a B&M Aviation installation instruction as well. There are no drawings or other information.

[voorheesh]

I have aileron gap seals in my 170A due to Horton Stol Kit STC. They were originally installed incorrectly because the spacer strips between the upper and lower wing skins were not removed. The Horton instructions specify those should be removed and the gap seals replace them. I spoke with a guy at Horton who told me that the gap seals can be important at high angle of attack where too much airflow through the gap between the wing and the aileron can cause the aileron to lose effectiveness. I believe they may also want us to install tape over the gap seal. I don't have this but I believe Horton instructions speak to it. I had to remove the gap seal and reinstall it correctly which was a royal pain. Instructions say you can do it without removing the ailerons but we removed them to make it easier to trim the seal for the 1/4" gap. BTW, if your N#, S/N is registered with Horton (mine was), they provide you with copy of the STC and instructions at no cost. They faxed them to me. They sell the gap seal fairly cheap (under $200). Is there any other reason to use gap seal on a 170 other then a STOL kit?

[Brad Brady]

I have aileron gap seals in my 170A due to Horton Stol Kit STC. I believe they may also want us to install tape over the gap seal.

Of course I'm just kidding......but your saying that 300 MPH tape can work for an aileron gap seal? ..Brad

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

You do know Brad that many airplanes have tape as gap seals. They come certified with it or there is an STC for it. Yes duct tape can be used but legality would be questionable on a 170.

[Brad Brady]

You do know Brad that many airplanes have tape as gap seals. They come certified with it or there is an STC for it. Yes duct tape can be used but legality would be questionable on a 170.

Actually, Bruce.....I was going on the rest of the club to give a response....not that yours isn't well worth the reading.....An old Delta Pilot told me, that it was, with a bird strike.... (IE Sully) or any other thing that might happen.....well in the Operators manual to allow the mechanics to introduce 300 MPH tape to allow the aircraft to make the next point of repair......with people on board....says a lot about 300 MPH Tape and, the Kahunas that Delta Had.....(you will notice that I used the term HAD).....it seams that no one has any Kahunas any more........I believe it's just going to get worse.......Brad

[Lopez]

We installed gap seals on my dad's 185 years ago and were very happy with the results. That's why we decided to put a set on this airplane and we'll probably put a set on my 185 when we finally finish the 170.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Lopez I have no reason to believe aileron gap seals won't improve aileron response and only made the observation about the flap gap seals becuase those are often seen with aileron gap seals. In fact I don't know as I've ever seen just aileron gap seals on a 170.

I hate to keep going on about flap gap seals in a aileron gap seal thread but I'd like to make it clear the B model flaps are quite different in their operation than A model flaps. Most of us know that. Seals on A model flaps will have a different and perhaps positive effect.

[c170b53]

It might have been previously mentioned that the Horton kit is comprised of the cuffs, inboard, outboard fences and aileron seals but has no flap seals. I'm sure this stuff all works together but the seals are quite small and unless you're into some kind of refurbishment why go through the trouble unless of course its fun.

[170C]

The post by c170B is interesting because my C-172 (TD) has a Horton stol kit which has no flap gap seals , just aileron gap seals. I had often wondered if they just weren't put on. This explains it. Now I've got to go look at my paperwork to see if I actually have all of what I am supposed to have, paperwork wise. I assume the leading edge cuff is also a part of that stc? Does any of this work or improve slow speed performance------beats me. I do believe that the leading edge cuff may reduce my cruise speed, but that is just based on how my plane preforms compared to flights with numerous C-170's. I always get a kick out of what the guy I bought 888A from told me. I asked him why there was an extra airspeed indicator in the instrument panel. His reply was that with the stol kit, the plane would fly so slow that the factory airspeed indicator wouldn't register any airspeed so he put the helicopter a/s indicator in so he would know how fast the plane was going Needless to say, that was the first thing that I removed. If it would fly that slow it would certainly be a speed that I am not going to be flying it except when landing.