Cleveland Brakes Wont Pump Up

[j3pup]

My recently aquired rat plane had new Cleveland Wheels and brakes on it before being stored in a garage for 10 years. Tonight we tried reconnecting the lines and trying to fill and bleed them from the top to the bottom to no avail. We can't get pressure to build up. Does anyboddy have any suggestions or where I can get a kit to rebuild the master cylinders? I am not really sure where to start on this one.

Thanks,

Randy

[LBPilot82]

I've experienced this many times in automotive with fresh or totally dry systems. I've always had good luck with a vacuum set up at the wheel cylinder end drawing fluid out instead of pushing it out from the top. "MightyVac" makes a really good pump for doing just this.

[GAHorn]

I've always found it better to add fluid via the bleeder-valve at the bottom of the caliper, That way the air is forced up into the master-cylinders and escapes from the vent....no need to bleed. (Hey! That rhymes!)
Anyways.... the few times I've added fluid into the top of the master...I've had difficulty getting the brakes to "pump up" pressure without an inordinate amount of excersizing the pedal.
Moral: Don't give up too easily or be too hasty to re-build your master cylinders. Let them sit overnight and vigorously pump them some more. They may surprise you.

(Have you tried pumping fluid into them from the caliper-end?)

[j3pup]

Havent tried pumping from the bottom yet, going to need to figure out a way to do that, thx.

[GAHorn]

It's not necessary to have an expensive or sophisticated brake-bleeder pressure-pot.
I have a dedicated trigger-activated oil-can which never is used for anything else but Hydraulic fluid Mil-H-5606. With a short piece of clear pvc tubing, one can inject hyd. fluid up the bleeder valve.

[j3pup]

Just found this, think I will try to build it tomorrow...

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/s ... hp?t=33493

Also what is the difference between car brake fluid and the 5606?

[GAHorn]

Just found this, think I will try to build it tomorrow...

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/s ... hp?t=33493

Also what is the difference between car brake fluid and the 5606?

WHOOOAAAAA!!!! Don't EVEN try to use automobile brake fluid in an airplane!
You MUST use only approved fluids in an airplane. The proper fluids are listed in the Cessna 100 Series Service Manual, 1962 and Prior. Get a copy. (If you've put auto brake fluid into your airplane that might explain why you're experiencing problems...and you definitely will be re-building your master cylinders. And your brake calipers. And replacing your flexible hoses at the lower gear legs. And the hoses below the cabin-floor behind the pedals. You'll just LOVE doing that! Then you'll have to flush the metal lines before installing the new lines and then refill the entire systems. Both of them.)

Auto brake fluids are mixtures of glycol and ether. They will EAT your airplanes brake system components and also attract water. (Car systems are sealed. Aircraft systems are vented to atmosphere.)

Aircraft Hyd oil is a mineral-based, light oil specifically formulated for hydraulic systems.
From Section 2 of the service manual:

Service Manual Para 2-20.JPG

One of the techniques when using a device like this is to make the hose DESCENDS before turning upward and uplifting fluid into the system. This will discourage bubbles from the oil-can pump from entering the brakes because the bubbles will resist descending inside the tube.

[blueldr]

Be sure to use clear plastic tubing on the pumping rig so that you can watch for and prevent the entry of any air bubbles into the system.

[LBPilot82]

I don't think this is too far off topic so I'll post it here. With regards to the flexible brake lines at the wheels, my IA wants to see data tags on them. I have no idea manufacture date or ratings of these. Couple of questions then: Are data tags required???? I don't recall ever seeing them on ANY brake lines of the planes I've flown (doesn't mean they weren't there). I don't imagine I can just slap a set off tags on old hoses so where do you recommend getting new hoses? Last, if I'm gonna replace these, can I use stainless steel braided lines. If I use stainless, can I make and tag them myself?? Thanks.

P.S. I also have the same problem with the fuel line from the gascolator to the carb.

[Brad Brady]

I don't think this is too far off topic so I'll post it here. With regards to the flexible brake lines at the wheels, my IA wants to see data tags on them. I have no idea manufacture date or ratings of these. Couple of questions then: Are data tags required???? I don't recall ever seeing them on ANY brake lines of the planes I've flown (doesn't mean they weren't there). I don't imagine I can just slap a set off tags on old hoses so where do you recommend getting new hoses? Last, if I'm gonna replace these, can I use stainless steel braided lines. If I use stainless, can I make and tag them myself?? Thanks.

P.S. I also have the same problem with the fuel line from the gascolator to the carb.

Any of these hoses can be manufactured by your APIA....With a log book entry...Most APIA's would rather have you purchase a new hose with a tag....I am one...It just puts the liability on someone else....Data tags are not required by the FAA(in most cases). But a log book entry is. If manufactured in shop. As for changing from 303 or whatever to stainless....I wouldn't have a problem.....but I would have to check into seeing if it is (usability) legal......Brad

[blueldr]

LBPilot82,
Your AI needs to go to work for some airline. You need to find a different, more reasonable, IA.

[GAHorn]

Ask your IA what about datatags for the METAL lines that LEAD to the flexible hoses. While you're at it, ask if he's also going to require datatags on all the vacuum lines and hoses.
I agree with bluEldr. Your IA needs to direct his attention to the important stuff and quit looking for unrequired meanial B.S.

[j3pup]

FYI, I used your recommendations and bought a $12 pump can at napa, and a $1.00 peice of fish hose at WalMart and pumped my brake fluid up through the bleeders. It took less than 5 minutes a side to have them working.

Thanks all!